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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 11:44:36 AM
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Gunni
have you tried looking at stallionsdirect.com - it's the web site for our key semen freezing practice over here and I know there are one or two Arabs on there. They hold semen for my Cleveland Bay stallion and I will be using them again for Last Crescendo.
I think it's tragic but I do think SCID needs stamping out. My husband is a farmer and we have to take a very strong line with some of our pedigree stock and we have to cull anything that is not the correct genotype (we're not allowed to use it for pedigree breeding purposes if it's a low grade genotype). It's tough but it is working and gradually the disease prone genotypes are being reduced. I think it should be mandatory for the breeder to have any foal tested and the results put on the registration document at the AHS. Then it's up to the buyer if they want to go ahead. Yes it's an added expense to breeding a foal but it's responsible and it would save so much heartache and expense for people later on. We are not allowed to register our pedigree sheep without declaring the genotype. I think the horse world should do likewise.
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 11:56:59 AM
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We have the same here with cattles and sheep, and if just one goes in a farm wich is not testet the status of the farm is back to cero.
About the crabbets, I donīt think we can pull all the carriers out of the breed, far to many precious animals will dissapear, but we can take care and test every foal after carriers so we know what we are dealing with.
Her in DK a test only cost 30Ģ it is not that bad. and we can have it done of the hair used when they has the DNA for registration, so in a full registered horse you donīt need the vet to come, just call the lab, give the data and voila.
Gunni. |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 12:08:59 PM
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| I don't about the grey Mike (could be English/Polish/Russian, but knowing you and your penchant for playing tricks, is probably something unlikely such as Egyptian!) but I am pretty sure that the stallion on the right in the pics of 2 chestnuts that you posted is General Gold? I haven't seen this pic before, and never saw General Gold in the flesh, only in a couple of photos, but he was the sire of my first horse, so I recognize him (I hope)! |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 12:27:13 PM
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Oh - and Jane, I can't wait to see the new pics of your lovely Spearmint (thanks for posting the pretty Ascot one, Mike)! And very pleased to hear that some smart people are grabbing the chance to use him before it's too late. 
Mike - please tell us: who is the chestnut on the left in your picture (who presumably won at Ardingly, as it was General Gold who was BNC at Ascot)?
And who is the stallion in Germany that you like so much? I assume he is Egyptian, but don't recognize him.
I'll let a few more people guess at the grey before insisting that you tell us this one too. Looks kinda like an Al Waha horse to me - has a lot of the qualities that Jane breeds (strong topline, good legs, lovely neck)- which should mean it's English or Russian or some combination of these. But I'm totally guessing, and will probably be proved totally embarassingly wrong! |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 1:01:47 PM
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I'm not saying anything about the grey just yet!
The chestnut on the left is Rasmoniet RSI (seen again below). I think that Jane rather liked this one at the time
The now old (1982 vintage) German liver chestnut, was described thus (in a report on the 1985 Paris Show) by a prominent British breeder of the time "The three year olds were won by Sherif Pasha. German owned and bred by Ansata Abbas Pasha out of Sabah by Ibn Galal. This beautifully balanced liver chestnut moved out in spectacular fashion, and though to my eye looking more like a two year old filly, he became the Junior Male Champion and in the World Championship he ended Best Male in Show"
This is a later photo, taken by Erwin Escher
To be frank, he hasn't set the world alight as a sire, however perhaps with the right mare... and as a horse, nothing born since even comes close, plus he has proper performance credentials
Mike
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Edited by - Mike on 29 Aug 2006 11:00:04 PM |
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Treasure
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 2:08:31 PM
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Hi Mike,
This is interesting! The grey filly (?) looks as if the head doesn't quite match. The body could well be Egyptian or possibly Polish etc but the head looks slightly too large - could be an English, Polish, even (but I don't think) Russian. Am I way off beam - and potentially insulting someone's lovely horse?!
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Carolyn
Johaara Arabians |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 6:51:28 PM
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Racheal, I can understand as a farmer why you would think the way you do about SCID carriers but as Gunni has already stated we would lose soo many valuable bloodlines. I think the key to it is testing and making correct choices when we breed on.
I was nonchelant about SCID status thinking it was a rare problem and unfortunately it was only after Gunni tested my filly's dam I then tested my girls. My high Crabbet, absolutely georgous filly in looks and personality is a carrier. She is out of a Premium sired mare and by a cracking All Round (Endurance, Jump, X Country) Stallion. I was inconsolable when I got her results but thanks to some straight & sensible opinions (Thanks Jude) I now realise it's nothing to be ashamed of and certainly not the end of the world and my filly will breed on if I so choose. I am better informed and can in the future make my choice of stallion based on the extra knowledge I have
I couldn't possibly chuck this baby out with the dish water
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Edited by - georgiauk on 29 Aug 2006 6:52:31 PM |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 7:02:14 PM
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So, Mike, I take it the chestnut stallion on the right was indeed General Gold? Please tell me I got that one right!
Still puzzling over the grey...looks more and more like an Al Waha horse to me; it's definitely that type, anyway. So it's gotta be either English or English x Russian. Could it be a Narim baby out of an English mare? Or am I going to look really stupid very soon?
Your favourite stallion Sherif Pasha looks lovely. Got any more pics of him? |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 9:40:33 PM
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Yes the chestnut on the right was General Gold, I should have said so! I do have more pics of Sherif Pasha, but since the consensus amongst Europe's Egyptian breeders is that he hasn't bred on, I thought that it would be interesting to see what a "washout" can produce, given the right mare(s)
 
The winner of 11 races to boot!
Mike |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 01:02:45 AM
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Wow! What a stunning horse! Who is it?
Just a thought: If everyone thinks Sherif Pasha is a 'washout' as a sire, and he's old now as well, perhaps you could buy him for peanuts, breed him to your mares, then give him a happy retirement?
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 09:31:02 AM
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Oh goodness me Georgia - I didn't mean that we should cull our bloodlines - sorry if it came across that way. No, what I meant was that I think we should all have to test before we register and then it helps people make informed choices. So, if you have a mare that is a carrier you can select a stallion accordingly and there will always be times when (to preserve the bloodline) we will take a chance.
Oh heavens forbid that you think I meant your little girl was to be thrown away with the dishwater!! So sorry. |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 1:34:21 PM
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Kate, the racehorse is Amir Moshari who is at stud in France, and whose dam is by another beautiful but unpopular stallion in Anchor Hill Halim
This does I think underline the point that success in the show ring (in this case winning a World Championship) is by no means a measure of breeding potential Nor can one assume that a beautifull stallion will necessarily improve the looks of one's rather plain mare
As for the grey one of you has been very close, should I come clean or let the owner do so?
Mike |
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Treasure
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 2:55:28 PM
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| Well I for one am intrigued as i always thought I could tell the different strains apart! I keep looking at the grey and can't come to any other conclusion than already suggested, ie a bit of a mixture, so it's a puzzle. Will the owner be reading this thread or can we wait any longer?! |
Carolyn
Johaara Arabians |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 3:06:45 PM
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The grey isn't a cross but is a descendant of two of the other horses appearing in this thread
Mike |
Edited by - Mike on 30 Aug 2006 3:14:56 PM |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 3:13:33 PM
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Hi everyone! And thanks to Mike for posting the photo just to tickle your minds about types 'matching' bloodlines.
The grey is Dahisha by Imad x Dancing Queen, all GSB lines and 99% something crabbet !! As a yearling, (the year the photo was taken) she was Reserve Supreme Champion at the Northern Show and has turned into the most lovely mare, and is dam this year of a superb filly by Silvern Risalm. And oh yes, everyone does think she is by Narim, my Russian stallion and say I must have made a mistake when registering her .
Happy breeding!
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 3:25:48 PM
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As an aside, and for a bit more fun, would anyone care to count up the number of SE, GSB etc horses (including Dahisha) that I posted pictures of during this thread? Will anyone get the right answer?
Or even which of them has the most "labels"
Mike |
Edited by - Mike on 30 Aug 2006 3:29:43 PM |
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 3:50:31 PM
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Now everyone may think I am really a dummie.I have recently read a biiiig book about egypt, the Faraoes, the gods, the citys , the citicens a.s.o.
What was very surpricing for me ,was that many, many gods are some kind af an animals, but noone was a horse.
The horses is not mentioned at all!! I read about the battles where they drove to the desert and stole slaves, cattle and horses from the tribes living out there.
The scrips on the walls in the graves donīt show horses, but cattle, birds, dogs, croccodiles and many other animals, no horses.
Then I think that when it come to all, the arab comes from the desert, as we all know and have been raised there "forever", then why is the egyptian breed then purer, than the others, as to me it seems that those from the desert around Egypt is much older and the ancestors to the SE to day?
Iīm not familiar with all this pure this and that, I know what a Crabbet or an GSB is.
Gunni.
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 5:05:24 PM
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The purity thing is a bit of a red herring and is simply a matter of belief There has been much speculation on the subject, but personally I find the idea of pharoahs driving chariots pulled by arabian horses rather far-fetched
At the time of Napoleon the population of Egypt was composed of Kopts (the indigenous Egyptians), Bedouin, Mamelukes and Turks. The Bedouin in Egypt at that time could; according to the French; muster around 100,000 horses which seems rather a lot!
Mike |
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 10:04:41 PM
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I know I was in deep water, it was only that it surprised me that not one god was a horse, (lol)
Gunni |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 11:09:04 PM
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I think that the answer to that is that the horse was never indigeonous to Egypt, after all the river Nile has only flowed through there for around 12,000 years lions, hippo's, crocodiles etc would have followed the river downstream to arrive in Egypt, but there were no horses upstream. They arrived with the Hittites.
Mike |
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