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Kharidian
Platinum Member
 England
4297 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 5:30:29 PM
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Just looking for advice please. Roger injured his knee 18 days ago (a field injury overnight - so no idea how he's done it) probably twisted during a "hooly" as there is no external trauma).
Initially it was swollen above and below and around the knee - no apparent pain anywhere and fully weight bearing although stiff on moving as it was too swollen to flex much. Anyway, I started him on paddock rest and 2 bute per day. After 6 days the external swelling had completely resolved but the knee joint was still swollen, sound at walk but about 2/10 lame at trot (perfectly happy to do so, though).
I had my Vet out who said I could either manage him conservatively or take him in for X-ray + removing joint fluid and injecting cortisone. I elected for conservative management initially, just adding Glucosamine to the Bute on Vet's advice.
Anyway, 18 days on the joint fluid does not appear to have gone down although Rog is now virtually sound at trot.
I have booked him in for the Vet on Monday which will be 3 weeks, although I am concerned about having needles in the joint because of the risk of introducing infection.
Has anyone had a similar injury and/or has any other things I could try? He has been having magnetic bands on both cannons intermittently but I've had to leave them off today as he's got lumps under them and he needs a break from them!
Thanks in advance!
Caryn
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Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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alison
Platinum Member
Wales
1810 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 7:18:54 PM
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Hi Caryn, sorry to hear this would massage and cold hosing be of any use? hope he's much better soon.
Alison |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 7:26:16 PM
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| Wish I had answers but I am sending healing wishes. |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 4:22:15 PM
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Thanks, Quarabian and Alison. I haden't actually thought of hosing/massage as it is the joint fluid itself rather than soft tissue around the joint.
From the lack of responses, am I to assume that Rog has managed to do an unusual injury?
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 4:35:53 PM
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| Maybe it is unusual not come across it either, but the advice for hosing and massage sounds good, you might find it goes down after a walk, my horse has a puffy lump on her tendon sheath she pulled it earlier in the year, hers is worse when she is stood in for a bit, i found the bandaging helped but not possible with a knee, you could try some tendon gel if its fluid might help. |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 4:50:49 PM
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Pinkyboots, he is on paddock rest (a decent sized paddock as he doesn't rush about) and the knee has been exactly the same size for two weeks now, even when I took him on a walk to "nanny" for a youngster (Rog needs to have a job to do - he hates not working).
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 11:16:37 PM
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Oh right makes sense really to put him in a smaller paddock, i suppose its only been 3 weeks might be worth giving it another few weeks to see if it goes down, is he still on bute? You could try putting ice on it, i used to freeze some ice cube bags in the freezer then bandage onto the leg.
My mare sounds the same as roger she loves to work but has been out of action for 5 months now although only slightly lame in trot now.
I will have a look at the gel the vet gave me see what its called might be asking your vet for some, |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 11:26:59 PM
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I'd be I retested to hear what the gel is, please. Yes, he's on 2 bute and a scoop of Glucosamine per day. If his knee had gone down at all I would have given him longer (I'm not someone who rushes to a Vet) but i think the time is right to investigate further.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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oliviaw
Bronze Member
202 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 11:54:50 PM
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Sorry Roger still isnt right!
Im struggling to picture the swelling- is it sort of at the sides? How much bigger is it then his other knee? Maybe you could post a picture?
I know you say he isnt lame, but does he resist flexing it when picking his feet out?
Olivia x |
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brack369
Gold Member
559 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 06:40:00 AM
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This sounds similar to an injury my friends little welsh has. He went for x-rays last week and was diagnosed with an inflammed knee and put on box rest for a month. To be honest I only asked how he was and didn't ask for too many details. I'll speak to her today and let you know if she has any tips.
Hope he recovers soon |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 11:05:50 AM
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Funny you should request a picture, Oliviaw.....as "here's one I made earlier" - taken yesterday evening. Ignore the fact that he looks like he's turning the off-fore out, it's an illusion/the way he's standing 'cos he's actually got very good, straight legs.
The swelling bis mainly at the front and at the outside - it isn't the flesh that is swollen but where there is more joint fluid so the joint capsule is expanding the joint from within.
Anyway, fingers crossed for tomorrow, I've got an appointment at 14.30hrs.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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SuziQ
Gold Member
England
922 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 4:06:30 PM
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What you are describing and the pic looks very much like my sisters horses capped hock....
She is basically sound on it and it goes up and down depending on how much of an idiiot she is in the field. It doesnt effect her really at all but it is a bit unsightly when large.
The vet offered to drain it but our farrier advised against interefering with it after his own horse did a similar injury and they caused a massive infection in the joint capsule.. |
Everyone in my life brings me happiness, some by arriving others by leaving. |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 4:48:27 PM
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SuziQ, that's why I was hoping it would go down on its own - I'm concerned about an infection :-(
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 5:16:14 PM
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Its called compagel made by boehringer ingelheim the vet was from belgium who gave it to me.
Says its for local inflamatory swellings bruising inc tendonitis bursitis and acute inflammatory conditions of the musculo skeletal system in the horse, also promotes reabsorption of haematoma and oedematous swellings.
Looking at his knee i think your right to investigate further hope it goes well tomorrow, please let us know what they say x |
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SuziQ
Gold Member
England
922 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 8:13:47 PM
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Caryn, Ruby was x-rayed to make sure it wasnt OCD and there wansnt a chip or similar involved.. bog spavin usually stays lumpy once its streched the joint capsule, though in young horses it can go down on its own.. I asked my sister how long it took to stabalise tonight and she said she thought it was about 6 weeks but as I said it does flair up if she is a twit but goes down within a few days. She is glad she didnt have it drained as her friends horse has done a similar thing bashing it in the horse box, they have had it done 3 times and it keeps filling back up.
Good luck with your vet visit  |
Everyone in my life brings me happiness, some by arriving others by leaving. |
Edited by - SuziQ on 09 Sep 2012 8:14:56 PM |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 8:36:18 PM
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Thanks for asking your sister, SuzieQ.
I'll have the X-ray tomorrow - and take advice about whether to have it drained or not. Vet, 2 weeks ago, said to drain but as he's sounder now I'll see what Jonathan thinks. I'll update this thread tomorrow.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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kath
Gold Member
United Kingdom
943 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 9:44:47 PM
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The problem with draining is once its been done once it usually needs to be done again..and again! So steer clear if your vet thinks it will go down with time
Compagel is great stuff, massage it in. Have you tried magnetic boots or a knee wrap? Might help it too
Poor Roger! |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 9:49:44 PM
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Thanks, Kath. He has had magnetic wraps intermittently but he got lumps under the magnets! At his age, if he has a fat knee but sound then so be it. I'll look at getting Compagel (along with Hypocare for Chips' scabby heel) lol.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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kath
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United Kingdom
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 10:17:08 PM
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I'd be concerned about using an NSAID gel at the same time as Bute as that's also an NSAID, but thanks for the thought.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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oliviaw
Bronze Member
202 Posts |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2012 : 9:25:58 PM
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Thanks for asking, Oliviaw. Well, Jonathan (Vet) was very surprised that he was sound in walk/trot although the knee hasn't gone down since he saw Roger 2 weeks ago. However, he didn't like more than 3/4 flexion.
He had lots of X-rays taken, and on one, a tiny bone chip could be seen, on the inside aspect of the knee joint. Apart from that, the joint looked great - no arthritis at all. It was not possible to see where the fragment had cone from. Jonathan said it would be very difficult to find on keyhole surgery; therefore he will send the X-rays to a specialist in Newmarket & get back to me.
In the meantime, just to keep on with the Bute & Glucosamine. Definitely no Cortisone or fluid to be drained. Possibly for Adequan if surgery isn't recommended.
So - still wait & see :-(
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2012 : 10:08:32 PM
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I know it might not be what you wanted to hear but at least your closer to getting to the bottom of it, might not be so bad as you think,
Just thought i would say the only horse i have known with a bone chip which funnily enough was also an arab was really lame, he came in with a kick on the front if the cannon bone which did swell up and wouldnt go down but he was hoping lame, after his x rays they found he had a bone chip which they removed and he was fine afterwards.
Hopefully you wont have to wait too long to hear back from newmarket keep us updated x
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2012 : 10:14:46 PM
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| Poor boy...lets hope it gets sorted soon |
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SuziQ
Gold Member
England
922 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2012 : 10:40:45 PM
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Oh Caryn what a pain..literally!
At least you have a better idea whats going on... again on a Hock but we had a chip removed on my daughters french PBA..op was a great success...she was very lame on it though also. They were worried that leaving it where it was it would move and compromise the joint.
She was operated on by a Newmarket vet ...cant remember name,, was very neat though.
Flipping horses they know how to go for the big bucks dont they! |
Everyone in my life brings me happiness, some by arriving others by leaving. |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2012 : 7:48:35 PM
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Another update: the specialist in Newmarket agreed with my Vet that, although obvious on X-ray, it would be very difficult to remove the chip and he would probably end up less sound, given that he is >99% sound as it is. Specialist suggested ultrasound scans to see if there is additional ligament/tendon damage as the majority of the remaining swelling is to the outside of the knee but the bone chip is on the inside, so Vet came out today and the good news is that ligaments etc are 100% good.
Rog has started a course of Adequan injections today (to be followed by another 6 at 4 day intervals), reducing Bute to 1per day and continue with Glucosamine. I can start to hack him and play it by ear. I'll turn him out with the herd again in a few days; at the moment he's being a wonderful "big brother" keeping Chips company in the barn/paddock (when grass is dry) while his infected mud fever is being treated (it's much, much better now - should be cleared in a few days)!
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
Edited by - Kharidian on 17 Sep 2012 7:50:17 PM |
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Advice please - knee injury
