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 Radnothire Polo pony Sale..info wanted 1907-Pelle
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Rozy Rider
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Posted - 19 Aug 2010 :  02:49:40 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pelle, Have you got anything, like a list of the ponies sold at the above, in your Grans box ??????. What else did Rev.Montefiore have in Arabs...any Grey about around that time, I know he had Mootrub ( a chestnut with white legs) and I know that Sahara spent two seasons in Camarthen.
Do you know anyone who has the early NPS registers..like 1900 -pre 1912 ( got 1913 - 1915.)
Do you have the Wynn davies book - Vol1 -15 The Early Days - Notes..
After more offspings by Shy Boy.. and Eheu.

Thanks Sue

Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 23 Sep 2010 2:17:56 PM
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dormouse
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 20 Aug 2010 :  4:22:00 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dormouse to your friends list Send dormouse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One more arab for you. The Bey - picture from www.sporthorse-data.com



I can find The Bey in the RASE Journal of 1903 owned by G Norris Millwood and in the RASE Journal of 1904 owned by Rev Montefiore & Col Henriques. Both times is described as follows.

The Bey 108 bay aged, s & d Arabs of the Tahowi Bred.

Elsewhere I have found Tahowi listed as Tabour.

The only progeny that I have found so far was in the 1899 RASE Journal with no dam listed.

G Norris Millwood for Hasel 709 chestnut filly, bred by T Haselhurst, Plumbley, Knutsford, s The Bey 108.
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dormouse
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 20 Aug 2010 :  6:30:05 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dormouse to your friends list Send dormouse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found another arab stallion exhibited by Rev Montefiore & Col Henriques listed in the RASE Journal of 1903.

Blucher 169, Grey, foaled 1897, bred by Col E N Henriques, s Blitz, d Abjar.

I have found Abjar to be listed with a number of 317 or 814 so not quite sure whether this is relevant. Someone on allbreeds has listed a Rosina or Rosina II by Rosewater out of Abjar 317. Perhaps an interesting link?

In the Livestock Journal Almanac of 1902 Blucher is described as follows.

Blucher 169, Vol VI P.P. Stud Book, 14 hands, 5 years, by Blitz the best arab of his time in India, owned by HH the late Maharaja of Patiala, out of imported arab mare Abjar 317. Blucher is remarkably well suited to get high-class Biding Ponies having a beautiful true action.



Info on Blitz taken from the Arab horse by Spencer Borden.
....R30,000 were offered and refused for either Rex or Blitz. This last-named horse was certainly one of the greatest stake winners for his inches that the world has ever seen. Bought originally by Lieut. O'Farrell of the 6th Dragoons for R400 ($200) he was never beaten. After winning the Civil Service Cup for the second time, this owner and partners bought him in no less than fourteen pools, whose actual aggregate value was $60,000. Later, he was bought by Lord William Beresford, and used in the stud in England, to a limited degree. Afterwards he passed into the possession of the Maharajah of Patiala, who took him back to India and used him for breeding. He is described by one who know him well, in these words:
"He is for his size, the most remarkable animal ever foaled. He is milk white with black muzzle, which can be put in a pint pot. Weight makes no difference to him."

Found some other horses bred by Radnorshire Polo & Riding Pony Stud and also Rev Montefiore & Col Henriques but will type them up when I have a bit more time hence only the info above which I thought was probably most relevant.

Suzy
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Pelle
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Sweden
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Posted - 20 Aug 2010 :  9:19:07 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pelle to your friends list Send Pelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shy Boy was exported by Sir J Barker in 1912 to argentine, to Frank J Balfour,Washington, Cordoba. Alot of his daughters was covered by Belsiree (famous in Bwlch Valentino's pedigree). Some of his stock was sent to Uk as poloponies and did very well.
Mother found a very bad copy of the catalogue of¨the sale of Radnorshire Polo and Ridig pony pony stud .You can hardly see anything, but a friend of mine who is a specialist in computers told me he can try to find some information. will come back if he find some news./pelle
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 21 Aug 2010 :  01:17:45 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the imput folks...

I'm still wondering how Phillip Davies got hold of Cigarette, but encouraged to find that Nell Pannall names one of the family siblings SIGI....must mean something. and of course where she came from... and just wondering if she was in anyway related to the Radnorshire Sale. I think there is a Welsh link and not forgetting the Signorita link already reported on the dams line.

Mr J.Williams had Signorina (s.Pacific)from 1899, the year Sree was born...but still got to confirm the link between Signorina and Mr P Davies.
Mr Davies and his father in Camarthenshire, had several horses about. Lara, Meridunum by Cripple....but still no link to Phillip Davies...yet.. and the race pony Cigarette, except whats entered in the Welsh Stud book, she was sposed to be a famous flapping pony with lots of winnings. Must be recorded somewhere...

I think it would make my day, if I could find all the mares Sahara covered when he was stationed in Carmarthen...might be a link there..too

The Radnorshire sale catalogue might also hold some clue's..
Pelle, Could you give us the date the sale took place... might be able to get some info on line....

Seeing Mrs Betty's address,and reading the notes, she would have been hunting on Sahara with the same Hunt pack as Mr Phillip Davies, (who had Cigarette), so I guess Sahara would have been known and seen by lots of folks from the Carmarthen Hunt in the years between 1914 - 1919.

Cheers folks for the info/imput.
Sue

Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 28 Oct 2010 01:15:39 AM
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dormouse
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United Kingdom
203 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2010 :  6:01:51 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dormouse to your friends list Send dormouse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One more Eheu progeny.
Doubtful (939) bay filly, b 1900, s Eheu, d Confidential (934), s of d Rosewater (37). Breeder Sir Humphrey de Trafford.

Confidential is also dam of
Confidant, s Bold Marco, d Confidential
Trysting Tree, bay colt, b 23rd June 1905, s Mountain Ash (298), d Confidential. Breeder C H Taylor, Hampole Priory, nr Doncaster. Owner Keynsham Stud Company.

Have found no progeny for Sahara but have found him in a couple of RASE Journals being exhibited in Polo Pony Stallion Classes for animals of eastern origin.

RASE 1919 - exhibited by Mrs F E G Betty, Dolygarreg, Llandovery, South Wales.
RASE 1920 - exhibited by Denis Aldridge, Sketchley Hall Farm, Hinkley.

Also from the livestock journal almanac 1904
Polo Bred Stallion Royal Rosebud (Vol. VII. P. and R. Pony Stud Book, and Vol. XVII., page 2??) (Four Year old) by Eheu, out of Eau-de-Rose by Champion Rosewater, Rosebud is beautifully bred, and should make an ideal Polo Pony sire. His dam, Eau-de-Rose 964 – bred by Sir Humphrey de Trafford – won first prize at Polo Pony Society Show at Ranelagh, 1895, and third at the Royal Show, 1897, and other honours. Rosebud’s graddam, Reiding 247 by Lord Gough, was a grand pony mare and very fast, being a winner of Galloway races, and also won third prize as a brood mare......

Edited by - dormouse on 08 Sep 2010 1:07:21 PM
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2010 :  10:32:35 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just spotted this ref. from above on REX. wonder if this is the New Forest Arab..REX BAY..
R30,000 were offered and refused for either Rex or Blitz.
----------
Back to the Arabain mare ABJAR Bay foaled 1887, of the Hamdanieh Simri Strain. purchased through Pallanjee Hormusjee in Bombay in 1892: she bore traces of recent wounds and was said to have been abandonded in Arabia, then picked up by the Arab trader.(adding then..Imported)

1897 Gr.Colt.Blucher 169,14h.by Blitz.(Blitz was well know in India and eventually became the property of the late Maharajah of Patiala).
1899 Br F,by Rosewater
1901 Br F, by Rosewater
1902 Ch.F,by Q.C.
1904 B. C.by Eheu (s.of Dispair)
Barren 1898,1900,1903,met with accident & shot before foaling in 1905. All above off springs of ABjar, recorded as property of Col.Henriques.

Dilkushi, her grey filly by the Tweedie Arabian and foaled in India in 1894, imported in 1896 (Col.Henrique's)covered in1904 by Q.C.
(notes taken from GSB Vol XX,p.937 - Arabian mares).

-------------
Sue

Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 27 Aug 2010 10:55:36 PM
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dormouse
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 21 Sep 2010 :  1:24:06 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dormouse to your friends list Send dormouse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the Bath & West & Southern Counties Journal 1905.

Bredegroom, Chestnut Gelding, s Eheu (219), d Flirt (84).
Exhibitor - E N Henriques.
Breeder has a Market Harborough address (a snippet view so all I could get.)
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2010 :  10:11:56 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you for your continued help & info, much appreciated.

I cant find any record in the GSB on line for EHEU 219 (TB).
Also interested in FLIRT - NPS.84...(allbreeds No.73)

Anyone here of this other stallion that Radnorshire were using called...

Cheers Sue


Sue
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dormouse
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 22 Sep 2010 :  1:23:15 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dormouse to your friends list Send dormouse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found a couple more offspring for Flirt (84)

RASE Journal 1905
The Rev D B Montefiore, Islip Polo & Riding Pony Stud, Oxon for Delightful, chestnut filly, foaled 1904, bred by Exhibitor & Col E N Henriques, Mursley Stud Farm, Winslow: s Hurlingham (90), d Flirt (84).

Bath & West & Southern Counties Journal 1905
J O Muntz, Goodmeavy, Yelverton, South Devon, Chestnut stallion, Combination (P and RPSB, vol VIII) foaled April 1900, bred by Sir H de Trafford, Hill Crest, Market Harborough; s Rosewater (37), d Flirt (84).

Bredegroom I have found elsewhere listed as Bridegroom.

Can't find any info on Flirt herself on line and I agree with you about Eheu.

Suzy
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2010 :  12:33:36 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you dormouse, I've just been searching de trafford..so on the same track, I'm after a welsh mare Trafford had that was covered by Shy Boy.... no worry just another one on my trail list.
Just found several others by SHY BOY, in the NPS XIII, 1913/14.will add them later.

I think they might have changed the name to Eheu, unless he was registered abroad and import. de trafford was also in the millitary, dont know if it was India too, they were bringing them back as chargers, with them...

Flirt interests me, I think she must be a Hurlingham Polo Pony, but need to confirm..dont know anyon with the Hurlingham lists.

I've added as Bredegroom, for now...

Thanks again. I cant get going with the links..my server is old & us..

Cheers again..very grateful. Sue


Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 23 Sep 2010 2:11:40 PM
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2010 :  2:16:40 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pelle, Please can you tell us what date the Radnorshire Polo & Riding Pony sale was please. how many lots were forward (numbers sold) and any prices, and WHO WAS THE AUCTIONEER and WHERE WAS THE SALE HELD...Please if you have this info can you let us have it...and I'll speak to the Archives for that area.

Bleddfa is just about 50 miles from me and I'm going down to Bwlch in a couple of weeks..got a few contacts in the archives now, although they run seperate offices..Radnorshire is one and Sth wales is another. If you don't have this info about the auctioneer..no worries I'll carry on and contact the offices..

Thank you
Sue

Sue
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dormouse
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 24 Sep 2010 :  6:09:28 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dormouse to your friends list Send dormouse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Finally found a reference to Eheu in a GSB Volume (Vol XVII) that is available on line (www.archive.org). Hopefully link should take you to something that you can read.

Under Fisher Lass

1892 b c Eheu by Despair

The Breeder is listed as Mr T Stevens.

http://ia360633.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/0/items/generalstudbook08unkngoog/generalstudbook08unkngoog_tif.zip&file=generalstudbook08unkngoog_tif/generalstudbook08unkngoog_0318.tif&scale=8&rotate=0

Fisher Lass was sent to Despair from 1891 - 1894 producing bay colts in 1892, 1894 & 1895 and a chestnut colt in 1893. 1892 = Eheu, 1893 = ch c Dejected and 1894 colt died.

Also from archive.org has Modern Polo by Capt E D Miller scanned in. Under List of Existing polo ponies there is an entry that might tie up with Flirt (84). Looking at the other lists given it appears that she was registered with Hurlingham before 1897.

FLIRT (Sir H F de Trafford), b m, a; County Cup, Hurlingham, 1895 (113).

Others in the list for Sir H F de Trafford are.
Existing polo ponies.
Dainty - brown mare, aged (114).
Grey Legs - roan gelding, aged (116).
Miss Edge - bay mare, aged (117).
Piper - chestnut gelding, aged (118).
Rugby - chestnut gelding, aged (115).

Registered and measured with Hurlingham in 1897.
Primrose - bay mare, white off hind pastern, very small star, small white mark on off side neck, saddle marks (128).

Registered and measured with Hurlingham in 1898.
Policy - chestnut mare, star, blaze, off hind coronet white. No 681.

Not Passed in 1901.
Cornelian - chestnut mare, star, race, disconnected & small star, snip. No 4.

Also found a couple of mares listed to either Col Henriques or Lieut-Colonel Henriques.
Registered and measured in 1899
Dilkhush (Col Henriques) gr m; star, blaze, both hind legs white, white marks on hind and fore legs. Passed for season. No 0306.
Registered and measured in 1901
Red Rose (Lieut-Colonel Henriques) ch m; few grey hairs n/side centre of forehead, o/h pastern and heel, white with permanent scar on inner & front of same. (season only) No 105.

There where also some geldings listed to Keynsham Stud Company.
Game Chicken - chestnut
St Moritz - chestnut
Master Owen - bay
St Patrick - black.

RASE Journal 1905
Col E N Henriques, Aristocrat, Chestnut, foaled 1901, foal by Delicious. Bred by Rev D Montefiore.

Also found reference to a Delicious by Eheu out of Dainty born 1901 and thorough that it might be the sire of Aristocrat's foal.

Also found a snippet of a stud advert for Rev Montefiore & Col Henriques listing Autocrat, brown, foaled 1901, by Hurlingham, out of Housemaid.

Hope the above ramblings make sense.

Suzy
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2010 :  1:46:53 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just back from Bleddfa area.. been down to Bwlth Wells for the Endurance Race Ride....only crewing but still as exciting with a horse attempting the 160k and we pass through Bleddfa and the Radnor Hills...

Sue

Sue
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dormouse
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United Kingdom
203 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2010 :  3:03:26 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dormouse to your friends list Send dormouse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found a couple more animals that Rev Montefiore & Col Henriques exhibited as colts doing goggle book searches. Whether they used them at stud I don't know.

From Bath & West and Southern Counties Journal of 1905.

Class 26 - Pony Stallion, not exceeding 13.2 hands, suitable to get Polo or Riding Ponies [7 entries]
I (£6) - Hon Mrs Ives, Moyns Park, Halstead, Essex, bay, Rosestalk, foaled 20th April 1900; s., Rosewater (37); d., Babble (1150); s. of d., Rosewater (37).
II (£4) Rev. D. B. Montefiore & Col. Henriques, Mursley Polo & Riding Pony Stud, Mursley, Winslow, brown, Connemara Tim, foaled 1900, bred by T. Toole, Fonhera, Clifden, Connemara, Co Galway; s., Gorden Crescent (TB); d., Bess (1128); s. of d., Connemara Mare.

Also

Rev D B Montefiore & Col Henriques, Little Orion, chestnut colt, b 1903, bred by the Right Hon J Lowther, s Orion, d Reverend Mother (GSB).

Dept of Agriculture Technical Instructions for Ireland. Vol 5 1905.

Little 'QC' stallion, by Orion, d Reverend Mother.

In looking around on the internet I have found a tb mare named Reverend Mother who I think will be correct as in vol 20 of the GSB on line she has progeny listed with a Mr J Lowther as breeder in 1900 and 1902.

1900 b f Agnes Lowther (late Blexilla) by Symington.
1902 ch c Oriosa by Orvieto.

Reverend Mother, chestnut, b 1896, s Hagioscope, d Happy Agnes by Hampton. Bred by Captain Fife.
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2010 :  12:22:58 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dormouse, Thanks for the continued info..I'm just working through your last two postings. ( My earliest NPS is 1913, so finding it difficult to go back to the early NPS numbers like 1150 Babble.
Babble might be Polo Pony or NPS, have entered her up as by Rosewater, but have no idea yet..who her dam is..There is one TB born same year, buts its not her, as she's by Rosewater.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rosewater

Mrs Ives, Moyns Park is the same owner and also had Bashom the Fox, who arrived here in August 1901. Who was famous for his efforts in the Sudan war of Omdurman where his rider won the Victoria Cross.Winston Churchill on his Grey charger also lead the charge that day.http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bashom+the+fox

Reverend Mother.born 1896.(GSB.Vol.XX.p.717.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/reverend+mother
She was barren in 1901 & 1904.
1907 & 1910 foals both by Matchmaker.




Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 28 Oct 2010 01:18:01 AM
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