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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Apr 2010 : 11:35:54 PM
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Can anyone remember reference to any early Arabians ( or more recent) that are Chestnut and have random white spots. Any info or reference please.
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White Body Splashes, white Blazes + chin etc.etc. and legs. etc.etc.
Some of the early Arabains, especially chestnuts have recorded aditional white marking in the early stud books (Vol.II).
Someone has added sabino to the allbreeds for some arabs, with whole body colour ( Chestnuts) and with no body splashes, just white legs and face and under chin markings. Is this really Sabino...or do they need to have body markings/splashes too, to be Sabino.???
I'd also like to have any info of Chestnuts with white body splashes, please.
Especially any that run in breeding lines.( from the early lines).
Thanks Very Much in advance.. Interesting subject.
Clutha love your colt. ( I have a 3/4 TB Chestnut & White mare).
Cheers Sue
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 18 Apr 2010 10:22:35 PM
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Lindsay
Gold Member
Scotland
944 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 07:53:07 AM
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Sylvie is chestnut with roaning through her coat, she has a white splash on her tummy and a patch on her knee, she also has a black splodge on her forehead. She has a silver tail too.
She is by Red Shadow x Sula Minisca - 97.57% Crabbet |
   
Paidir dóibhsean le fiántas ina gcroíthe acu, atá coinnithe i gcaighin |
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Avonbrook
Silver Member
287 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 10:31:10 AM
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I stand to be corrected on this  but I think I read somewhere that white on the lower lip is the truest indication of sabino - whatever else is going on around it. I looked it up when Marcus started getting white spots ( Birdcatcher? can't remember now and on my way out of the house)
Rowena |
  
www.avonbrookstud.co.uk |
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 1:32:52 PM
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| Plenty of old Crabbet lines have the felcking up between back legs and naval area - seems to increase with age, much like roaning. It crops up here quite a bit. I think white lower lips are linked to human eyes, but again, colour genetics are not my area. I'm just happy we got a bay colt from a marriage of mostly grey grandparents! |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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kathleen
Platinum Member
England
1835 Posts |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 11:12:32 PM
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| Originally posted by Rozy Rider
Can anyone remember reference to any early Arabians ( or more recent) that are Chestnut and have random white spots. Any info or reference please.
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White Body Splashes, white Blazes + chin etc.etc. and legs. etc.etc.
Some of the early Arabains, especially chestnuts have recorded aditional white marking in the early stud books (Vol.II).
Someone has added sabino to the allbreeds for some arabs, with whole body colour ( Chestnuts) and with no body splashes, just white legs and face and under chin markings. Is this really Sabino...or do they need to have body markings/splashes too, to be Sabino.???
I'd also like to have any info of Chestnuts with white body splashes, please.
Especially any that run in breeding lines.( from the early lines).
Thanks Very Much in advance.. Interesting subject.
Clutha love your colt. ( I have a 3/4 TB Chestnut & White).
Cheers Sue
Up to the imports of the 1980s, most British Arabians were chestnut with varying degrees of sabino, so a list would be a long one! The pattern/colour come down through both Mesaoud and Rodania, so again you see...lots of horses fit the category!
Sabino can go from very minimal (my sabino mare has only a white pastern, star/strip/snip and lip spot) to extensive areas of white/roan covering most of the body. There does not seem to be a particular pattern of inheritance - parents with loud markings can produce more modestly-marked offspring and vice-versa!
Body spots are not inherited consistently, so I doubt it would be possible to breed specifically for them. For example, the Crabbet mare Queen of Diamonds had a large belly spot, but did not pass it on to all her offspring.
It is now looking as though a chin spot is not a 100% requirement to indicate sabino - certainly, only sabinos have them, but there may also be sabinos who don't!
Keren |
Edited by - MinHe on 15 Apr 2010 11:13:18 PM |
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Mrs DJ
Gold Member
632 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2010 : 1:57:55 PM
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My mare has some small belly splashes, as well as patches under her throat.
If you look you can just see some of her belly splashes on the pic. She has more in the girth area.
She is 98.69% Crabbet. |
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Edited by - Mrs DJ on 16 Apr 2010 1:58:53 PM |
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kathleen
Platinum Member
England
1835 Posts |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2010 : 8:45:34 PM
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Another stunning chestnut with a white belly splash springs to mind, the lovely TAMIRA (Andoy x Queens Topaz) from Al Waha. She also carries lines to Mesaoud, Rodania and Mahruss.
I'm sure Harwood Arabian Stud bred more than a few,including Tyga Lily, owned by Mouse who posts on here. A number of years ago, the Stimpson family also bred a lovely little filly, PAS Salomai, that I used to drool over. Then, there is the gorgeous OAS Panache. (Just checked her on All Breeds and Rodania, Mahruss and Mesaoud all there). Let's not forget Rusleem...oh, and yes, Mahruss. Rodania and Mesaoud are all there in his genes if you go back and look.
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Edited by - pintoarabian on 16 Apr 2010 9:42:51 PM |
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Tahir
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4572 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2010 : 02:50:22 AM
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I've also bred a filly with Mesaoud, Rodania and Mahruss in her lineage - she was bay, had a massive belly splash, high white on all four legs, large erratic blaze and white bottom lip markings. Her full sister has a small star and one small white coronet and a white sock. The full sister's daughter has a star, small white on legs and badgering in her mane and tail.
Very interesting!!! |
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s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2010 : 2:04:17 PM
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My H Tobago colt has roaning throughtout his coat now, apart from his head and neck - and also the chest and belly splashes  |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
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s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2010 : 4:49:37 PM
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Yup, that's what we hoped for
My chap's dam is also out of a Queen's Topaz daughter  |
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janidan
New Member
England
8 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2010 : 12:29:30 PM
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| I haven't posted on here for ages but just happened to be passing!! My grandaughter's gelding is by Sun Shadow and is over 90% crabbett. He has a "lightening" splash on his side and the white stockings. |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2010 : 2:02:05 PM
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Thanks for your imput so far folks, I love the Picasso colt and have a suitable mare for him..
As for the SPOTS, the only two horses I know that have these similar spots are Aboud (had them) and Firebird has them.
Looking at Abouds lines I had gone back to Rissalix 1934, who appears on both sides of his breeding and Yes also goes back to Mesaoud 1887....So it looks as if we/you might be on the right tracks.
The Sabino seems to have been present right from the start, as it appears in many of the early Arabian horses/imports and some of those are direct from the Desert.
I was also looking at Rijm 1901, Rose of Sharon, Rodania 1869. So I've come to the conclusion that Sabino is part of the breed.
Leaving you Abouds lines as he had the Spots...
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/aboud
Thanks again, a very interesting subject.
more to follow..
 Firebird has spots, you can just see a couple, one on the neck and one on his shoulder there are others and he goes back to Mesoud 1887.(photo at Haywood Oaks last Saturday where he Won the ER 80kms Race Ride.)
Cheers
Sue |
Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 22 Apr 2010 10:49:23 AM |
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Avonbrook
Silver Member
287 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2010 : 3:22:43 PM
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Hi Sue
Marcus Aurelius has a few and is getting more. I can take some photos when I visit on Wednesday if you're interested. His foal due in July from Bint Zaehaebi will be sabino both sides and, in addition to also being flaxen, Bint Zaebaebi has the facial marking that I have been told is called the "Astrella marking"...
Rowena |
www.avonbrookstud.co.uk |
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kcv1223
Gold Member
England
651 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2010 : 4:56:10 PM
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Hi Sue,
Yes Aboud certainly had spots and Ziadah (my Aboud g.daughter) has a few. Her 2009 colt by Psytadel has one tiny fleck on his bottom!
Karen |
www.alkaraarabians.co.uk |
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taranstorm
Gold Member
Wales
952 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2010 : 6:54:47 PM
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| Bint bint shakira who i used to own does have plenty of white spots on her,looks lovely! |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2010 : 10:15:56 PM
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Hi Folks, can anyone post pics of these with spots pleas. Including Aboud...anyone one got his Malvern photo 31st July 2004, that shows his spots.
Hi Avonbrook, I already know Marcus Aurelius quite well and I may find photos of him doing endurance a few years back. My neice took some pics of him too..Cordelia.
Also my pal is expecting foals again this time by ISTFAHAN a half brother to Marcus.(same sire).
Sort me your pics out folks and post them please, would love to see your Spots.
Cheers
Sue |
Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 18 Apr 2010 10:37:00 PM |
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Avonbrook
Silver Member
287 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2010 : 08:56:22 AM
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Cordelia's photos from 2008 are still some of the best I have of him, particularly the liberty ones However, the spots hadn't started to come through then. When he is back home I need to get her to come and do another series, now that he is all "grown up"!
I've seen some photos of some of Istfahan's recent foals for your friend. Very exciting
Rowena |
www.avonbrookstud.co.uk |
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Clutha
Bronze Member
155 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2010 : 12:42:38 PM
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Pip definately has marks on her lower lip & chin as well (don't worry Sue, wont tell her you called her a boy!). Her photo on ABP just shows her small patch on her right side, much larger one on her left (about the size of a hand). She does have hundreds of small spots inside her back legs running up to her navel, where the combine into another patch. Her mane is now flaxen, the earliest reference to this I can see is Rose of Sharon. It seems to pass down but often skips generations in terms of being expressed. If someone can pm me how to download photos onto here (being in mind I may work with a computer design package but am completely computer non-literate)I can post some better ones of her.
I did notice her mum (born chestnut) whilst she was turning grey had loads of white spots like Firebird (had a large one on her neck before she went white), & white streaks down her legs which seemed to follow the veins. Some of these are still visible on her legs which aren't white-grey yet. She also has 'patch' in her mane (which is still grey rather than white) that is pure white, it's about an inch long. She also has the multitude of tiny white spots between her back legs.
Guessing the gene came from her as don't remember any patches on her dad, Indian Idyll (he doesn't have a flaxen mane either, but his half-brother, Grecian Idyll does). Have a look at Marbon stallions, several recent colts have huge amounts of white on them. |
Pip |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2010 : 1:30:56 PM
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| Wow, it works. H has a few of small white spots and white lower lip mark, very sweet ... had a look and they are all there, Mahruss, Rodania and Mesaoud. And Mikeno (on all breeds) says sabino on each back to Rijm > Mahruss. Very interesting. |
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Tahir
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4572 Posts |
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vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2010 : 11:08:38 PM
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My old girl Tara has white spots randomly over her bay coat and when i checked out her pedigree (mainly crabbet) i was told her grandfather indian king was also marbled with white spots as he got older. Would love a picture of him in his later years to confirm this.
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
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Chestnut Arabians with White Spots.. & Body Spla
