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kofihorse
Bronze Member

241 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2006 :  08:39:04 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kofihorse to your friends list Send kofihorse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
trying again


Edited to add the "image tags" - Mike

Edited by - Mike on 13 Sep 2006 2:33:00 PM
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Eeyore
Gold Member


1181 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2006 :  09:03:13 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Eeyore to your friends list Send Eeyore a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I apologise in advance for sounding rather dim but is my mare classed as Rodania tail female line or Kuhaylahajuz?

This is the link for her grandmother since neither my girl nor her mother are on Allbreed Pedigree.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/princess+shalimar2

Heléna
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Mike
Platinum Member

Eire
1872 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2006 :  2:47:41 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Send Mike a Private Message  Reply with Quote
She's K. Rodania

Egbert, I do (or at least did) have a photo of Mudir somewhere but I haven't a clue where I may have "hidden" it!

Assuming that I have Lynda's mares pedigree right, I would be happy to run through my reasoning behind the mating I suggested earlier. Assuming of course that anyone would be interested in finding out

Mike
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2006 :  2:58:27 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I for one would be interested in finding out Mike, who knows I may just keep her please tell


www.dreamfield-arabians.com
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kofihorse
Bronze Member

241 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2006 :  5:15:28 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kofihorse to your friends list Send kofihorse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, Mike, please do! I'm finding this whole thread absolutely fascinating.
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kofihorse
Bronze Member

241 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2006 :  5:20:34 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kofihorse to your friends list Send kofihorse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
PS EEyore - if I've understood this thread correctly, then Rodania is the head of the tail female line and her dam was described as a Kehailajuz - meaning she was a pure bred of a particular strain/tribe, that wasn't her name.I think I've got that right
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Marafia1
Silver Member


Scotland
444 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2006 :  5:25:31 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Marafia1 to your friends list Send Marafia1 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
egbert and mike

please have a look at my fillys judals marafia pedigree. her female tail line has been mentioned a bit eirlier going back to Ghazala but what about her sire line or even the combination of the two as I see so much a mix of both in her.Would love to hear your comments

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/judals+marafia

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Mike
Platinum Member

Eire
1872 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2006 :  11:18:08 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Send Mike a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How to begin, when I posted the photo of Maymoon (which I have looked at thousands of times before) I was in a reflective frame of mind and for some reason thought of this particular photo of El Shaklan

This got me thinking that the combination of Moniet & Maymoon should in general cross well with El Shaklan The classic cross for El Shaklan breeding is of course Carmargue, so it was but a small step to begin wondering about combining the blood of all four Then I remembered Lynda's mare by Narismma and the little gears started to whirl At this point it might be handy if I posted the links to the two pedigrees again.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/classic-maidan
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/niquitta2

Maidan's sire was by Maymoon out of Moniet, giving us two of the four, whilst Narismma, by the Carmargue son WSA Charismma, provides the other two. The first two points that struck me was that as previously mentioned in this thread, Carmargue is tail female to Ghazala and Maidan has 12 crosses to Ghazala's daughter Radia. Also WSA Charismma's dam was by one son of Ansata Ibn Halima (Nazeer X Halima) namely Ansata Ibn Sudan out of a mare by another A. Ibn Halima son (El Hilal) and Maymoon also traces in tail female line to Halima Futhermore Sanadik El Shaklan's dam Mohena was by Hadban Enzahi (Nazeer X Kamla) who also sired Maymoon's dam Maymoonah. Whilst she (Maymoonah) was a full sister of Ibn Estasha's sire Malik In the fourth generation of Narismma's pedigree is the great showman Plakat whose dam was a grandaughter of Nil(Sid Abouhom X Malaka) and Malaka can also be found in the 5th generation of Maidan's tail female line. Before I go waffling on forever There is I think enough common ground to make what might initially sound like a rather bizarre total outcross work rather nicely, not to mention the important point that judging from her photo's the mare seems a good physical match.

Incidently Maidan plus a mare with some Spanish blood and a dash of El Shaklan, looks like this:-



Adding some Carmargue should be a nice safe bet!!!

Mike
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Cate
Platinum Member

Scotland
1785 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2006 :  11:35:13 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cate to your friends list Send Cate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Really interesting Mike, but are you sure the "Classic" cross for El Shaklan is Carmargue and not Ali Jamaal!! You should look at some of the lovely mares Lenita Peroy has bred of El Shaklan/Ali Jamaal blood...a pretty good "Classic" cross if that's what it's called. Also, if my memory serves me right she has bred some lovely stallions with this cross also.

Sorry, but could't resist putting this Something to think about though, or not!


Edited by - Cate on 13 Sep 2006 11:45:25 PM
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MinHe
Platinum Member

England
2927 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2006 :  11:37:30 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add MinHe to your friends list Send MinHe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Egbert

What a beauty. This is the Mudir son? Have any photos of Mudir? Thank you for the pedigree of Lynda's youngster!


I have some photos of Mudir, but unfortunately have no idea how to post photos here!

Incidentally, Mudir was one of 4 identically-bred colts that June Alexander got by Marawan EAO out of Latifah and Latifah's full sister Annisah - Montasir, Maajed, Mudir and Marzook. Montasir was a superb horse - Dr Pesi Gazder enthused over him and said he should never be gelded - but unfortunately his first owners weren't up to coping with a horse with his brains and did have him cut. Maajed was HUGE - about 16h, seal brown with a very good temperament, but he didn't really have chance to make much of an impression as his owners were abroad much of the time.

Mudir was sold to the Middle East for a big price (by UK standards) after he had been at Claverdon for one stud season - he also raced, coming 2nd in his 2nd outing. He had his name changed in his new home, but was noted as siring some very good fillies. He was not black, but seal brown.

Marzook was IMO the best of the lot - he sired a Haydock champion filly foal (Johar) and subsequent HOYS qualifier out of a Mudir daughter - but sadly he died young as the result of an accident. My one non-Basilisk is out of this mare.

June always wanted a Marawan daughter but did not get one until she bred Doosti to him - unfortunately, the foal inherited her grandsire Mista Beaujangles' head and neck, so June did not keep her in her breeding programme. I believe however she has proved a good little endurance horse.

BTW, if anyone knows of the whereabouts of any other UK Basilisks - especially the stallion Khazdah by Kheir Allah and the mare Arami by Bay Aramis - I would be very interested to hear of them.

Keren
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Mike
Platinum Member

Eire
1872 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  12:56:08 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Send Mike a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cate, the differance is a subtle but significant one Carmargue is the classic cross for El Shaklan bred mares, whereas El Shaklan mares are the classic cross for Ali Jamaal

Think about it!

Keren, if you wish to email me a photo or two of Mudir, I will happily post it for you

Mike
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  07:13:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cate, Remembering too, all the different stallions that have been used by OMEL...Who did they breed to Estopa? Whose daughter is breeding the sires remaining at OmEl. It is sort of the same question one asks about Dargee...Which of his daughters were retained by Lady W?

Lynda, think it is a no miss combination!

Kofi, What a beauty...those eyes suggest both strength and kindness. You must miss her terribly.

eeyore...She is both a Kuhailan Rodania and Kuhailan Ajuz of the Ibn Rodan...Basically the Rodania family is a subset of Kuhailan Ajuz...tho' when looking at the numbers you would think it was the other way 'round.

Marafia, I love that pedigree! Wonderful Russian/Polish lines-sire line, a Seglawi Jedran, is to Bairactar imported to Poland around 1817 from the desert and is the oldest of the Polish Stallion Families per Fahlgren. What is so terrific is that it passes through Amurath Sahib which ALWAYS appears in the pedigrees of the most beautiful Polish/Russian horses. Incredibly powerful! With the dam line to Bint Helwa you have a strongly Seglawi Jedran pedigree. Would love to see a picture though have to warn you...these lines can go off between 1-4 years of age and look simply dreadful and then come back incredibly beautiful the following year. It is something to do with the way the teeth develope and the face actually swelling up. You have a filly with which you should be able to do anything! Absolutely super.

Love it Mike!

Edited by - Egbert on 14 Sep 2006 07:49:55 AM
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Cate
Platinum Member

Scotland
1785 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  07:36:26 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cate to your friends list Send Cate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you Mike and Egbert......super learning curve and much appreciated information.

My next question is who is good on Russian lines and what they throw as I have a bit of a problem....Anyone??? If someone does please email me privately on champ@buchanan26.freeserve.co.uk as I dont want to cause a stampede to flatten me!!

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Cate
Platinum Member

Scotland
1785 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  07:57:40 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cate to your friends list Send Cate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
though have to warn you...these lines can go off between 1-4 years of age and look simply dreadful and then come back incredibly beautiful the following year. It is something to do with the way the teeth develope and the face actually swelling up. You have a filly with which you should be able to do anything! Absolutely super.

Egbert....how interesting! My colt now a 4 year old stallion looked simply awful...head like an elephant ...no definition...for the want of better description, but in the last few weeks we have noticed a totally different look. Much more refined, very wedge shaped from the front. It is so marked that even my 14 year old daughter has noticed it. So now a rush to photograph him before it changes..

His lines being http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ah+walkyria+bhaltos

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sapphire blue
Silver Member


England
440 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  08:07:34 AM  Show Profile  Click to see sapphire blue's MSN Messenger address Bookmark this reply Add sapphire blue to your friends list Send sapphire blue a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is way too addictive!! So having read the above is Satin Moth's tail femail in fact Rodania? http://www.allbreepedigree.com/satin+moth and is cfs avalon's blood strain Kuhaylah Kurush as I think his tail femail is Dafina? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cfs+avalon Thankyou!!

Regards, Sapphire



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Vygoda
Platinum Member

United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  09:42:22 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Vygoda to your friends list Send Vygoda a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Posted this on the Kuhailan Ajuz forum too!

Dear Egbert and Mike,

I think we are confused (me included ) between families, strains and sub-strains. Would it be advantageous to list them to start with? And then maybe go on to what qualities they have, what is proven to work with what, etc?

From having lived here in the Middle East for so many years, I have found that Arabic verbal pronunciation can be very different dependent on what country you come from, and made more difficult by the variations of spelling by people who do not know Arabic and are transcribing from just being ‘listeners’. However, written Arabic is the same everywhere regardless of pronunciation.

IMO, the nomadic people tended, and still do, to live in family groups and their herds of camels, goats and horses were never very large as they had to move to find the grazing in the winter months especially in the Arabian peninsula where the summer temperatures are so high. Not all of the Middle East is so dry of course.

Help please Egbert and Mike. Thanks.
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  11:57:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Jane! Answered this question on the Kuhailan thread...hopefully.

Sapphire Blue...Yup! You are right!

Cate, Your boy is Polish but with Ali Jamaal and a few others, he should actually grow out of his stage fairly quickly-soon as his teeth bumps disappear and be very very lovely if not quite lively and a little too smart for his own good. Be careful he isn't telling you what to do!
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anne
Gold Member

England
877 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  12:26:56 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add anne to your friends list Send anne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Posted on Kuhaylahajuz thread also

Hi I've been following this thread and Tail Female Line thread with interest I have no idea at all about breeding I was offered my mare http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/taraneh as a thankyou from June Alexander for looking after another horse(long story) I was told she was well bred, Straight Egyptian (again ment nothing to me) I got her un backed but well handled just coming up to 4. Backed her myself and she took everything in her stride and did have the ok done that lets move on to the next thing, type of attitude. She is very nosey loves to be around people. and in my oppinion very beautiful (OK i'm biased)
I would like to bred from her purely to get a foal to keep for myself and was told I should do this before she is 10 (she is 5 now). Unfortunatly the stallion recommended died suddenly at a young age, also sadly June died eairler this year, so I do not have her expertise to suggest an alternative so where do I start?
Anne
Sorry forgot to mention tail female line back to Rodania

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike, Egbert suggested you could help me on this one


..................................................................... Photo by David Evans
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  12:56:57 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry for not replying sooner, got someone coming to see said mare today so been bathing, Thanks for that Mike and I whole heartedly agree with the El Shaklan cross Carmargue lines, they have worked so well for me and I recently used OM EL Shaheen on my WSA Charismma daughter with spectacular results, this filly has been the one most people want to buy, ( she is still here ! ) I wish I could remember how to post the pix ( old timers has something to do with it) but Mike if you can send me your e mail address I can forward you a picture of her and perhaps you could post it for me? and I agree that they are slow to mature but when they do, By golly they are stunning! I am going to be allowed to use LVA Maximus ( so kind of Lilliview ) on one of my Crimbo daughters next year and that should be a marriage made in heaven.


www.dreamfield-arabians.com
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Cate
Platinum Member

Scotland
1785 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  1:30:47 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cate to your friends list Send Cate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Egbert....cant pass the pc but I have to read this thread as it is so interesting, anyhow, many thanks for your comments. I was pretty sure he was mostly Polish with a dash of a few other lines i.e. sE.,Crabbet, but wanted to make sure.

Cheers..Cate

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Eeyore
Gold Member


1181 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  1:36:07 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Eeyore to your friends list Send Eeyore a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you for your replies Mike and Egbert. I am really enjoying reading the threads on here and learning so much.

Heléna
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Taylor
Gold Member

England
1432 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  3:49:55 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Taylor to your friends list Send Taylor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Have just caught on to this thread and I find it fascinating but a little mind blowing too. There is just soo much information to take in but its really exciting and leaves you wanting to know more.

So far I think if I have it right my boy Frazer(Amistad) is tail female to Rodania and the strain is Kuhaylahajuz, ?? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/amistad4
This is a picture of him


Id really appreciate it if any of you experts could take a look over Frazers pedigree and tell me what you think?
I beleive him to be mixture of Polish, Russian and Crabbet but am not too sure and have no idea what he is predominantly so any info at all would be great. I appreciate if you do not have time am now going to start reading the Kuhaylahajuz thread so I can learn some more.
Thanks again

Originally posted by Mike

The Rodiana intelligence, can be both a blessing and a curse On the down-side tricks/deceptions to get them to do something that they don't want to do, will only ever work once if at all! Then there is the low boredom threshold/impatience ... "we've been doing this for literally minutes!, isn't it about time to do something else!!! "Haven't you got that bl**dy bridle on yet!!" etc etc On the other hand, rather than disappear over the horizon when confronted with something new/"scary" the usual reaction is to take a few steps back and then have another/better look. Finally, when the chips are really down and you really do need "calm and sensible" you get it, without an eyelid being batted, even from a horse at the "H Bomb" end of the temperament spectrum!

Mike


Mike, I actually thought you were describing Frazer this is him to a tee.

Edited by - Taylor on 14 Sep 2006 9:06:04 PM
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  4:26:48 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think frazer is very hansome no wonder you are proud of him


www.dreamfield-arabians.com
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Taylor
Gold Member

England
1432 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  8:48:50 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Taylor to your friends list Send Taylor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thankyou Lynda, I love him to bits and cant wait to get him out showing next year.
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2006 :  9:00:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Taylor,

The only thing I pulled up was a half Thoroughbred's pedigree? Could you try again?

Thanks,
Egbert

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