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Mags
Silver Member
354 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 2:27:54 PM
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Between the different types of arabs 
(sorry numpty alert)
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 6:25:29 PM
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No need for numpty alert, we all have to learn
When you say 'types' do you mean Egyptian, Crabbet, Russian etc or strain or something else? If you mean strain hopefully someone with more knowledge will come along, I am just learning strains at present and can't spell half of them yet 
Carole. |
    
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Mags
Silver Member
354 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 7:41:55 PM
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| Hi thanks Carole, yes I mean Egyptian, Crabbet, Russian etc I dont even know what you mean by strain so best not to go there yet |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
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Mags
Silver Member
354 Posts |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 3:57:51 PM
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| Grrrr... couldn't resist another look at Tail Female!!! Have read from start to finish in a couple of sitting!!! Love all this info, wish my brain could retain it all! Wish there was more about Al Emeer TF!!! Emese.... |
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 8:15:19 PM
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OMG!! after all this blooming time I should have just asked I have spent a couple of hours blissfully searching the Tail female line of my three purebreds and "if" I have done it correctly....and please, please tell me if I haven't! If right Tes Nabil traces back to the Saklawi strain?? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tes+nabil
Treebie, A Saqlawiyya Jidraniyyah ? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/trebinshwm+drucila
and Nebraska's is Kohejlan-Moradi ? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/nebraska+iv
I am absolutely fascinated with this I must admit I was a bit miffed before by it all but I have started reading The Arabian Horse, History, Mystery and Magic. All these strains and not knowing which mine are from was really irritating me....and now I am so excited, even if I am wrong I'll keep trying to work it out but I think it's right  Thanks to allbreed it's easy!! and of course this Fabulous, Fabulous forum
Just to add...this is just the Tail female and not the strain??? I think |
George xxx
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Edited by - george on 17 Jul 2011 10:03:17 PM |
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Mags
Silver Member
354 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 8:23:30 PM
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| Easy EASY?? iv been trying to work out more on an arab I looked and not got anywhere. I darent even start thinking in terms of tail female line or strain and stuff my head will explode. Giving up for now and will come back to it tomorrow when I should be working |
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Paresh
Gold Member
613 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 8:31:42 PM
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| very good timing asking this question as I was just about to ask the same thing. |
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 8:32:32 PM
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| I know what you mean, but it is becoming a bit of an obsession with me at the moment, lol |
George xxx
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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 9:02:31 PM
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| from a non strain knowledge person...tail female line??? Ive never heard this term before. |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 9:57:14 PM
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This is a well timed question for some (me) it seems. As I am currently delving into strains can someone with me more knowledge than me tell me my horses strain, and tail female? If it's a real pickle to work out don't worry, I will get there eventually but I am dying to know.
This is Kes, http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/oes+ibn+alqasim
I am currently reading Judith Forbis' The Classic Arabian and have just started on strains, when looking up his sire on Al Khamsa that said Saklawi, but that's as far as I got (understood ).
Carole. |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 10:30:04 PM
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I think if you read the archived posts that Callisto has put on here you will find a wealth of information |
George xxx
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 10:54:20 PM
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George am with you totally obsessed!!!
i have read and re-read the TF topic! Gutted that not much known about Emese...
Still love readin ab out othes tho!!! |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 07:12:55 AM
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I'm really lucky - one of Lily's previous owners asked about her on the Tail female thread, and this was Egbert's response:-
Teresa, It looks like a 75% Egyptian pedigree, of course with lots of Crabbet-tremendous sire line to Nazeer via the powerful Shaikh al Badi
-same as Ali Jamaal-and the dam line traces to the popular El Dahma. My suspicion is that your girl must be exceptionally beautiful...as the lines that are not 'straight' are via the beauteous Ffatal Attraction whose composition is amongst the greatest of American and European breeding programs: El Shaklan, Khemosabi, Bay Abi. So your filly's strain is Dahman Shawan.
Have now become somewhat obsessed about the whole thing and just spent about 8 hours working out that she is 26.39% Crabbet. While I don't think that Lily is exceptionally beautiful, she is definitely becoming prettier as she matures - she has just turned 6 |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 07:50:32 AM
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I think that this quote by Egbert on the Tail Female thread is very helpful too:-
Originally posted by Taylor:"......That wasnt where I got confused though I was reading about Serenity Sonbolah and she is described as Straignt Egyptian and is also Kuhaylah Ajuz Rodaniyah with her tail female going through Rose of Sharon the same as Frazer. I notice alot of the horses in her pedigree were bred at Crabbet park so does this mean she is not straight egyptian and is crabbet aswell or does it mean Frazer contains egyptian lines?? Sorry if this sounds really dumb"
Some of sE breeders for reason that are to me unfathomable (and I hope I am not sounding like a pompous a**) go through all the machinations in the world to not recognize Crabbet/Shaykh Obeyd/Blunt breeding...like 'mum' is the word. Then like you someone starts doing homework and they notice all that Crabbet blood in the pedigree. Well here is the deal, Mike went into it earlier but I'll repeat it...as a result of African horse sickness decimating a goodly number of purebred breeding stock in Egypt, the Royal Agricultural Society sent over Dr. A.E. Branch acting for the society and he came over to the UK and purchased 20+ head of horses from Crabbet. He was incredibly rude to Lady W and so she hid both Nasik and Skowronek from him. After the purchase was signed and sealed, she trotted out both horses and Branch was furious that she had not included those two in the sale saying he would have gladly taken them both! So yes, a horse can be 'straight' Egyptian but it still has a load of Crabbet and would look a good deal different but for Crabbet. But to give credit where credit is due, a long term breeding program is the product of the breeder and what the breeder feels constitutes a great horse. But 3 decades ago I became so disillusioned by the sE program and our Pyramid Society's butting in and creating a definition about a horse that was bred in Egypt and putting up pedigrees that didn't reflect Crabbet's contribution that I started taking a lot closer look at the UK and Crabbet.
All in all when considering the smaller size of the British breeding programs, the care that went into them and still does, the genuine concern Lady W had for all the horses she sold from Crabbet especially to breeders in the UK basis some of the correspondence I've seen-to my mind the greatest group of breeders in the world come straight from the UK. It is the UK programs that are most deserving of recognition and think that a resurgence of appreciation for British breds is just around the corner.
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Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 08:16:47 AM
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This also explains some of the complexities in working out what 'type' of Arab you have (Egbert again explaining a specific horse's background - http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/agonia2)
Your mare is basically a Russian/Polish cross with a healthy doses of Crabbet and Egyptian, albeit being bred at Tersk, she is Straight Russian. She is a Kuhailan Moradi tracing to the great Polish foundation mare and desert import Sahara. The pedigree suggests that she is very attractive and a robust athlete.
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Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 08:43:31 AM
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Callisto, if I have it right I have been on a similar trail to you. Kes is straight-sired Egyptian but only because his dam's breeding didn't have exactly what the Pyramid Society specify, otherwise he would have been SE. I also read that SE's should be between 14.2-15hh, may not have been the PS definitions but I read it somewhere, he is inbetween this size but not SE nonetheless. I have read the PS definitions many times and even went on a long hunt to find out why they don't except descendants of Registan, who is a Skowronek son..........but that's another topic.
Like you I spent a day working out my horse's %. Although he is of Egyptian breeding he is also 19%Crabbet. Many people (non-Arab) think if a horse is Egyptian he can't be anything else but I also read that SE's carry a % of Crabbet blood also, it's very fascinating but can make things confusing when you start out. It's also one of those topics that you start out reading a little bit about something and before you know you become obsessed and 'have to' understand it all, I would say I am about half way through at present. I understand about bloodlines and strains now, just making sense of it now to apply it to my own horse so I can work his out. |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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abcoboy
Silver Member
England
464 Posts |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 09:09:48 AM
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Kes
I believe that Lily is in excess of 75% Egyptian because Ffatal Attraction is himself 25%, so that would make her 81.25%, also at 15.3hh she certainly doesn't fit the height limits you mention, despite the fact that I believe her sire (GR Amaretto) is a similar height (and is SE). I found it very interesting that each of her grandparents are approx 25% Crabbet, despite being an international mix. Yes I really am turning into an anorak - I now have a notebook containing the Crabbet percentage of every horse that I have had to calculate, and am considering turning it into an excel spreadsheet....
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/zahkira
ETA I was more excited about the Crabbet than the Egyptian - all mine have been high percentage Crabbet/OE up to Lily, so I was pleased to find she had more than I expected.
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Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 18 Jul 2011 09:23:24 AM |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 09:17:37 AM
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| abcoboy, it stands for their sex, bit confusing because H stands for stallion, but otherwise f = filly, c = colt, m = mare etc. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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parkvillenerog5
Gold Member
England
699 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 11:05:17 AM
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Great topic.
Im useless with percentages but im bursting to know my mares and geldings, and would be very greatful if someone could help me.Think my gelding is quite high perecet russian, and mare high egyptian but im not sure.
My gelding is here http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/solitaire+sr
and this is my mare http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ht+nygella
Thankyou and hugs in advance |
      
Solitaire SR(psy dream x ltf wings of joy) Eywas Moonlight (Persie sir russel x Glynwyn abigail)Brookfarm Chorister (Brookfarm mr chips x Hopgarden Lilibet) |
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Mags
Silver Member
354 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 11:30:09 AM
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| Now why didnt I think of that, just ask other people to find out for me on a horse |
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abcoboy
Silver Member
England
464 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 11:48:19 AM
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ahhh thanks Calisto, the H threw me!!! haha .. h
How do calculate percentages of polish/egyptian etc? x |
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abcoboy
Silver Member
England
464 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 11:49:20 AM
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ahhh thanks Calisto, the H threw me!!! haha ..
How do calculate percentages of polish/egyptian etc?
This is monkey moos family |
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abcoboy
Silver Member
England
464 Posts |
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Topic |
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Tell me the difference
