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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Nov 2009 : 7:39:23 PM
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I know this may sound like a strange question but what height do you guys think is the "ideal" for Endurance & why?
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2009 : 8:19:20 PM
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Depends on the size of the rider - horses have been successful from a small pony (off the top of my head 12.2hh) who completed 100 miles with its junior rider years ago to quite large, although 16.2hh is probably a good upper limit purely down to the 'type' of horse - e.g. a shire cross is not the obvious choice for competing over the longer distances purely because of speed and the difficulty of cooling it down (Although of course there are no doubt successful horses over 16.2hh). Also it's not necessarily the height of the horse but how big he rides and his length of stride.
Purely because of the predominance of arabs in the sport they tend to be between 14.2hh and 15.2hh. At 5'7" my ideal height is 15-15.2hh - I can get on easily from the ground if I have to, and it's easier on my knees - although I have competed on my 14.1hh, he is a little small - he is extremely short backed and I have long thighs. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Sharon
Bronze Member
England
179 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2009 : 8:47:13 PM
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hiya, interesting question!
There is really no 'ideal' height! and it is not really anyting to do with the weight/height of the rider, if the combo works, it works! I am not exactly a lightweight and I often compete on my 14.2 arab x nf, it comes down to balance and horse n rider working together.
And BEFORE I get flamed about rider weight etc, obv riders feets touching the ground is not a good idea!
you really can't 'tailor' make the best combinations, and the horses can't be made to 'measure'!
Go and enjoy yrself
Sharon x |
Life is like an endurance ride.....can anyone here read a map? 'cos I'm lost!!!! |
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Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2009 : 9:14:23 PM
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The following only really applies if you intend to compete in ER's.
Strictly speaking the height does matter as height is a component of the all important surface are to volume calculation which will determine the effectiveness of your partner as an endurance horse.
Physically speaking you want an animal with a high surface area to volume ratio for optimum heat loss. Heat loss in endurance is all important. So yes a bigger horse will be at a disadvantage as it has a lower surface are to volume ratio.
That said a tall horse with a narrow chest will probably have a larger surface are to volume ratio then a shorter cobby built horse.
So a tallish horse with a narrow chest cross section should be better then a smaller horse with a narrow chest cross section.
Again it is not quite as simple as that. From analysis of top endurance results around the world the ideal height seems to be between 14.2 and 15.2. Horse outside of this range have much lower completion rates, shorter competitive life spans and less wins to there count.
Again the rider weight as a proportion of the horses weight also is a factor that affects completion rates, win rates and competition life span. Low ratios not fairing so well. I can not remember if the data I saw took into account rider to horse ratios when looking at height in relationship to performance.
To add to that stride length of an animal will also affect the horses ability to perform and how it moves, ie a daisy cutting action may be more energy efficient then a high knee action, this will matter far more in endurance then show jumping, dressage etc.
So yes height does matter but so do lots of other things.
Dot |
Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com
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Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2009 : 9:15:31 PM
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My arab is 14h and I love doing endurance on her.
Pluses are that when routes go through woods people have asked to swap as I'm trotting along ducking the odd branch whilst those on the bigger ones (16h ish )are struggling. Also easy for hopping on and off.
Minus - there's so little in front of me that have jumping pads in knee bit of FnE saddle 
Saying that one day would like to breed her final foal from her for next horse, which my ideal would be 15h. Her last foal (before she was mine), an arab, is set to make 15.2h, so she seems to have larger babies. |
    
Cinnabar Moth --------------- -----------CF Matilda ----Red House Gaia
Susi
https://www.facebook.com/CinnabarEndurance/ |
Edited by - Cinnypony on 27 Nov 2009 9:18:27 PM |
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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2009 : 1:21:16 PM
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Hi all & thank you for your replies, I was asking in respect of competitive ER's & thank you Dot for the Technical data, figures don't lie! However there are always exceptions to the rule!
I also partially asked due to an observation I made (in France) that there seems to be allot more taller horses (15.2hh+) competing than I had noticed in previous years & wondered if there was a reason for this? Or whether courses had changed at all & are better suited to bigger striding horses? At the longer events (90km's+) I haven't seen many 14.2hh's competing at all!
I do not compete myself at the moment but would love to in the future when my youngsters are old enough, one may only reach 14.2hh & I was also wondering if this would put me at a disadvantage before I started! I am 5'2" medium build! |
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Brigid Fairman
New Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2009 : 5:44:34 PM
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I believe, but have no statistics to back it up, that smaller equals sounder, so if you are petite, don't worry about it and buy a horse to suit you. You will not be disadvantaged and, as everyone wants big Arabs, you will find it easier and much cheaper to buy small.
Some of the best endurance Arabians in the world have been tiny, including a 3 times world champion Rio and the current phenomenon Nobby, who cannot be more than 14.1 and carried 75 kilos to victory over courses as disparate as those in Malaysia and Italy. |
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Hussar
Bronze Member
Scotland
56 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2009 : 6:24:12 PM
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| This is an interesting thread! My current endurance horse is a chunky 15.3 grey Polish Arab, powerful, ground-covering, but tricky to cool off as he has quite a bit of muscle mass. He tends to present for final vetting at about 44-46 bpm. My retired boy is a 15hh chestnut PBA, narrow chested, short-striding, but a very easy horse to crew and rarely above 42 final HR and more usually in the high 30s. Oddly enough, at 5'6" and 9 stone, I felt that I was the right size for both! And undoubtedly the smaller horse was much easier to get on ... |
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 11:24:06 AM
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I have competed successfully riding anything from a 13.2hh New Forest Pony to a 15.2hh pure Bred Arab.
This year my most successful horse is a 14hh 19 year old Arab mare 2 wins and a second (A racing finish)out of 4 starts.
It all depends on how you feel and the training you do.
In the past part breeds have been very successful in the 160k classes. They have also represented GB as part of the international team.
My ideal would be a 15hh grey pure bred Arab.
Pauline |
Pauline Higgs
Equine & Human Holistic Therapist
www.thegentlestouch.co.cc
www.endurancegbmidsouth.co.uk
Berkshire / Hampshire Border |
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Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 11:02:08 PM
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To reflect rather than absorb sunlight? (On the same principle as wearing white in the tropics). Either that or Pauline just likes greys  |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
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Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 4:09:15 PM
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The colour of your horse will make little difference to its ability to loose heat. It is a myth as there are far more important forces at work then absorption of heat from radiant heat source, horse are not metal boxes with empty space inside them, Iam talking about cars.
If you take how a horse cools itself in the main, via evaporation of sweat then a horse that absorbs more radiant heat will evaporate its sweat at a quicker rate then one that did not so the net effect will actually be a cooling one. Water has the highest heat capacity of any liquid on this planet, so the amount of energy required to heat the horse from the sun by one degree C is going to be less then the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of the sweat by one degree C to help it evaporate.
There have been studies done that show the colour of clothing you wear in a hot climate has little or no effect on your body temperature. There are other more important factors at work.
Not sure on the statistics of winning horses coat colour but it is only valid as a measure when compared to the % /proportion of all the horses competing in all the races that are grey/ bay etc. For example if 80% of all ER's had been won by grey horses on the surface you would think wow got to have a grey horse, but if 805 of all horses that competed in the races were grey then statistically it is not surprising that 80% were won by grey horses. However if 2% of all the horses competing where black and they had won 10% of all the races then that could mean you are statistically 5 time more likely to win an ER if riding a black horse.
Dot
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Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com
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Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 7:13:08 PM
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more
Not meaning to sound rude but what you are talking about is anecdotal and not based on fact, people often misinterpret what they think they are seeing, myself included. Without proper research and statistical analysis then it is all guessing. Not got the money to do the research myself. I suspect that if you could get access to the FEI database of results and horses then you could do the statistical analysis I was on about on the results to see if there is a correlation. Correlation and cause and effect are very very different. I can easily prove a correlation between eating ice cream and sun burn but as we all know eating ice cream does not cause sun burn.
There are a load of things that are going to affect a horse way before colour, what you are probably seeing is a high humidity effect. Plus the fact that sweat on a dark horse is way more visible. I remain to be convinced of the grey effect.
What you are seeing could be that your horse is fitter then the other horses so has more capillaries close to the surface increasing the heat exchange and or a genetic predisposition to more capillaries near the surface. Neither of these have anything to do with coat colour. I can think of as many top international endurance horses who are not grey as I can the grey ones. |
Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com
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Edited by - Dot on 01 Dec 2009 7:16:15 PM |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 8:14:31 PM
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So in short Dot what you are saying is that the idea that greys are easier to cool is purely anecdotal, and there are no statistics to prove the argument either way?
By the way I'm not bothered whether it's true or not - I did not buy my mare for endurance because of her colour, but because of her conformation, stride, size and temperment and because she passed a full vetting. (She hasn't got the breeding I'd planned on either , but then sometimes a horse just chooses you). |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 01 Dec 2009 8:21:18 PM |
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Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
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Stagborough
Bronze Member
England
54 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 6:36:30 PM
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| I have competed at sizes from 14 hands to 15.3 and love riding my 14 hand Arab as she is easy to duck under branches and to jump on and off to do gates or to reach down for a low gate catch. She has been competing since the age of seven and now is twenty two. My only reservation about her size would be in doing FEI as I feel quite happy riding her as a lightweight rider but would not like to have to put the extra weight on her for FEI. |
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Best Height for Endurance?
