| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| susan p |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 11:42:33 AM
I have just had my vets bill of nearly £400 for two visits to check Iana's mud fever,,,merry xmas eh? Note to self do not phone vets for advice on mud fever next year 
I had been treating it with sudocream,udder cream,fuciderm and flamazine,she has been kept in and I only phoned the vet as one leg was quite puffy.I was happy to pay for one visit and antibiotics to bring the swelling down,but they also prescribed steroids and a follow up visit to check on progress(not really required!)
First thing on my new year resolutions list,,change vets  |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| phoenixbruka |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 5:52:04 PM
my 5 year old is insured, but my old boy isnt as he's not insurable unfortunately as he's 19 with djd and cushings.
He'll never want for anything or suffer though, he's still my baby
susie |
| Callisto |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 5:44:45 PM
My vets are very good (Equine specialists), and even though they know all ours are insured, they make a point of explaining costs as they mount up, and ask if you want to continue (obviously we always do, but presumably some people don't). Doesn't stop some of the bills being a bit shocking though. Can't imagine not being insured, we haven't had to use it that often, but it's been a relief when we have. |
| phoenixbruka |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 5:36:03 PM
i think you have to use your common sense sometimes..
When one of my liveries got a vet bill for £750 for a 1" cut, no heat no lameness no swelling, needless to say, she disputed the bill and got an explanation.
The explanation was visit, sedation, "joint wash" ( which consisted of tap water -from our tap! in a syringe pushed into the cut) and some vetrap and cotton wool, then another visit, which he didnt actually do anything on.
The actual cost had been racked up by platinum standard antibiotics at £60 per injection, unfortunately none of which had been explained to the client! An apology and agreement were reached.
I think as has been said, if the client is aware of what they are agreeing to then fair enough, but if the FIRST question that pops out of the vets mouth is "is it insured" then tread very carefully.
heres a thought though....
the equine practices in our area all charge approx £90 for standard yearly flu and tet jabs.... The small animal practice that does farm and equine as well charges £28 per horse INCLUDING VISIT AND JAB!! Needless to say he does the whole yard in 2 batches a year
I'm not vet bashing, my 2 best friends are vets, but I do think in these times we all have to be a bit more savvy and make sure we ask the right questions
susie |
| debs |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 5:24:25 PM
It may be of interest that under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 it is an offence to not be able to provide adequate financial provision for the care of an animal in one's ownership and that includes veterinary care - it is NOT the responsibility of the vet to provide services which will not be paid for just because the owner can't.
I didn't know that, but have to say it is the one thing that stops me having another beautiful arabian. Would love a baby in a couple of years time, when Ali has been backed and is a little older... who knows, if I buy a ticket I may win the lottery!!!
I bet there are loads of pet owners that dont even think about the hidden costs, just the purchase price...
just another thought if I did get another not sure I would go down the insurance route....different topic!!!
(on internet reg foals £850 unreg £650...) |
| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 4:29:12 PM
Agreed, Centaur. I do struggle to pay large vet's bills but my vet lets me pay over a few months without charging interest as he knows I will pay but can't afford the £2k+ ones as a lump sum.
My vet always tries to tell me the worst case scenario but at the end of the day you have to do what is right for your animals. I had a poorly foal who had to spend several weeks at the vets with mum and my vet pointed out that as she needed intensive nursing, lots of drugs etc I needed to decide the value of the foal and whether it was worth the cost as there was a chance I could lose her despite all their efforts. Well, what can you say? "Let her die" is not an option and fortunately the foal survived having cost far, far more than she will ever be worth but at least we have her and she can hopefully have a long and happy life. I could have ended up with a huge vets bill and a dead foal so a poitive outcome. Everyone at the surgery was very fond of her and worked hard to keep her going.
So, happy new year to all our vets and let us hope we don't see too much of you in 2011!!!!!
Barbara
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| alistair leslie |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 4:14:25 PM
spot on Centaur |
| Centaur |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 3:49:20 PM
Thank you Ella for succinctly expressing what I have been thinking for the last few days following this thread.
I was told when I entered the veterinary profession some 20 years ago that equine clients were the most demanding, least grateful and the worst payers. I took great exception to this as I consider myself a horseperson. However, overall, having dealt with farm and small animal clients as well as horse clients in the intervening years, I have to agree with the aforementioned comment.
And no I don't live in a large house with stables and a menage like so many of my clients. I took the honest, hardworking, value for money root preferring to be able to look my clients in the eye knowing that I am "doing right" by them and their animals and I wouldn't change that approach given my time again.
It may be of interest that under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 it is an offence to not be able to provide adequate financial provision for the care of an animal in one's ownership and that includes veterinary care - it is NOT the responsibility of the vet to provide services which will not be paid for just because the owner can't.
Rant over |
| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 11:20:22 AM
Nikki, why not ask for a discount for routine things like jabs etc for several horses; I get 10% but only after I had paid full whack for years and only asked in jest one day for "bulk discount". Don't ask, don't get.
My vet is expensive; I have helped build him a fabulous new house, but I have great faith in him and he is a real "horse vet" as he rides and has his own horses.
Vera, your vet must be a multi millionaire courtesy of Dennis!!!!
Happy new year everyone.
Barbara |
| Spangle |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 7:30:50 PM
Its a really difficult situation- vet bills have increased hugely, and I am sure some do overcharge.
During the almost 17 years of horse ownership I have had and been with the same vet practise, they have also developed their facilities enormously. They always have had a dedicated equine team, and have built a hospital with equine facilities, and an extension to that. This has to be paid for and I guess it comes in from the clients as a whole rather than just the ones who need that facility- I like to be assured that I know the facilities are there, with my own vets to treat, if so needed.
Although there have not (at least until the past few years!) not been many call outs made for my horses other than routine stuff, I have always had a personal service and been amazed at what the vets remember about us- and with a few equine vets that can't be easy if you don't see the clients often.
Throughout the past few weeks of awful weather in Aberdeenshire, they have always been at the yard at the time they say they would, trying as best they coudl to fit in with my lunch hour, for visits to Spangles eye ulcer.
They saved Marcos life (along with firebrigade) when he was stuck in a deep peaty ditch, made a very neat job of stitching Spangle together last year when she ripped her leg open- leaving her with hardly a scar, and the care and compassion that they showed when I had Anoushka PTS- and I know are there at the end of the phone if I need them (which ironically- I have had a few phone consultations and advice and often very helpful- and that I gladly would have paid for but never was charged for).
Yes there are times you inspect a bill and think its a bit high, but when you consider the reception staff, the nursing staff, the facilties, equipment, fuel, travel time etc it all does add up. I guess at least with extensions and new equipment that our practise tell us about in newsletters we get a but of an idea that the money is going back in to the practise.
I don't think I could move away from the experience, peace of mind, facilities and back up that I know I have for one of the 'cheaper' vets. |
| ella |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 7:12:45 PM
I'm also sorry Susan if you truely have been ripped off, it's just that the perception is often far removed from the reality.
Why didn't you cancel the 2nd visit if you didn't feel it was necessary?
Every day we have to deal with customers who consent to procedures at pre-estimated & agreed costs, then afterwards they turn up complaining and fail to meet the payment. This is outrageous behaviour, no different to stealing any other product or service, but people seem to think it's acceptable. Did they ever have intention to pay?
You can't have your shopping scanned at the supermarket then demand it's sold to you at a lower price - you knew what you were purchasing & it was your responsibility to check all the prices if you wanted to, before putting them through the checkout.
I know many other service providers also have a large number of bad debtors, but some people seem to brag that they're not paying their vet bill and are encouraged by others to withold payment. Surely they don't brag that they're not paying the mortgage or electricity bill?
It is not moraly wrong to profit from providing services to animals!
Very grumpy today as I worked at a branch surgery that we recently bought from a vet who couldn't make ends meet. "It was a lot cheaper when Mr X. owned this surgery...." - yes, & that's why he couldn't stay open for business! Elementary business mathematics - charge appropriately or you'll sink. I want to put my energies into the vet work, not money extraction :-(
Rant over, sorry! |
| zooscat |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 6:06:39 PM
I am fortunate to have had the same equine practice for the last 20 years, and used the head vet for most of that time; it has grown greatly over the years (I'm sure Casper RIP and Ryazan RIP paid for at least a couple of extra stables!) I have never been able to fault their care, compassion, knowledge and patience. After Ryazan was pts, the vet wrote me a lovely letter saying how the practice had always admired Ry and that he would be much missed by all; he added that I had done exactly the right thing and had been courageous to do it before Ry began to suffer. You cant really put a price on that. |
| scooter1 |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 5:56:41 PM
i do not regret one penny of the money i have paid to my vet practice. they are always and i mean always there for my horses when i have needed them. i have never felt that they have ripped me off. |
| Zan |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 5:34:52 PM
Sorry Susan--I know that's not the point and the point I meant to make, but somehow didn't(thought I had written more-- there may have been a cat on the key board.... again), is that I trust my vets, and I know they would never over charge, though some people always complain about vet bills, which I find hard to understand---all that training and expertise giving them the ability to heal animals, combined with unsocial hours etc. etc. has got to be worth a decent living wage in my book. They are always there for my animals and that is worth anything to me. It must be awful to have vets you don't trust-- is there any way you could find a vet you do trust, even if it is a bit further away? |
| susan p |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 11:33:05 AM
I pay out huge amounts in vets bills every year too and I don't grudge a penny spent on my precious animals either and yes I can afford it,,but that is not the point!
I know when I am being ripped off,it's not a nice feeling and I certainly don't appreciate it,more than anything else it is an insult to your intelligence. |
| Vera |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 11:19:22 PM
Having had more than my fair share of vet's bills I've stopped counting! |
| nikki |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 11:14:20 PM
I spent over £3500 this year.
One vet i had out was charging per min and i wasn't informed of this at the time and i thought she was being nice and taking her time, she was very slow, so much that she kept on having to sedate my horse, and re-doing stuff as well as doing things that i wasn't asked if i wanted it done. Apparently she is known for bumping the bill up.
Also another had a injury, o.k had emergency call out but not stitches as no skin was left to stitch, that came to £400 for just the one visit £138 was just the call out, not including the follow up visits i had to have to check on healing, where as well as call out fee i had a £30 examination fee and the vet didn't even take off the bandage or examine the horse he just asked me how it was and o.k-could of told him that by phone!
Then i had a different vet again recently to do jabs, and she actually took the horses heart rate ect, never have any of prev vets done that, and they are all from the same practise.
By means i don't begrudge paying them, they do a great job, but i do wish they would make things like vacc and teeth rasping a bit cheaper, or a discount if you get alot done in one go. |
| Zan |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 6:51:38 PM
I pay out huge sums in vet's bills every year -- I don't grudge a penny of it--and I am by no means well off. I trust all my vets, and know that they do the best for my animals. Knowing my animals are in safe hands when they need help is worth the world to me. |
| Tricia |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 6:44:30 PM
Having a daughter as an equine vet it has made me realise how much value we get for our money. She doesn't get anything like what my eldest daughter earns as an accountant. Also out of hours work, weekends or even Xmas day they don't get any over time or any extra money. With several colics over a weekend I have know her work straight through from Fiday morning till tuesday night with only a snatched few hours sleep.
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| littlearabians |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 2:19:13 PM
Ella,
you might be right, but I still don't find ringing people asking for money a week after they send off the bill ok...
Regarding paying for medicine, I as said knows what it costs including transport, delivery ect. and the old vet I used doesn't stock regumate, therefore i had to wait nearly a month till he wasgetting supplies from Intervet, As I waited i surely do not expect an profit charge for the vet of £112...he could have given me a £12 perscription and I could have saved £80 buying it on hyperdrug.
I don't mind paying people for their work, however do I mind being taken for a ride... which I do think was the case there.
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| ella |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 2:05:45 PM
"pay the bill now and they will then knock off 10%... to me this proves that they overcharge by AT LEAST 10%."
Or it shows they are really struggling financially & urgently need the money to come in. It is notoriously difficult to run a financially viable equine pratice, hence why there are so very very few to choose from these days. Staff at one practice close to me face redundancy this New Year. My own practice dropped equine work 15years ago because it wasn't profitable.
If drugs aren't marked up enough to cover staff wages & overheads (24hr remember) then the business will fail. Why on earth do you expect to be sold drugs at cost?????? As well as the 'cost price' the vet pays for delivery, batch tracking, storage with temperature monitoring, paperwork if off-licence, dispensing containers & staff to both prescribe & dispense. They also have to cover the cost of any unsold/out-of-date or spoiled drugs + the expensive disposal of these unused products.
When I bought my first horse in 1993 there were 7 mixed practices to choose from covering my area, only 3 have survived.
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| susan p |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 11:36:24 AM
That's dreadful imagine writing that!
My last months bill was £1200,you always know it's going to be huge when you hear "are you insured?"
and you question things,because you don't want your horse to go through treatment that is not required and then they say"your not paying for it anyway!"or "that's why you have insurance"
My insurance company only paid about half of my bill last month and I have an excess of £150 so sometimes it's just over that and not worth claiming for,when I get the reminder for this latest bill I will be querying it! |
| littlearabians |
Posted - 28 Dec 2010 : 7:33:08 PM
hmmmmm...
well I have never in ANY other country had vets ringing me a week before paid by date, asking me to pay the bill now and they will then knock off 10%... to me this proves that they overcharge by AT LEAST 10%.
I have worked at equine hospitals, and I do know what things cost for the vets when they buy in medicine... and its not a lot at all... just as an excample I changed vets early this year as I got overcharged £112 for a litre of rugumate (that is £112 more then my vet pays to buy the bottle)... and now my new vet does this hole rining up thing...
I had my Chaser PTS 3 weeks ago, it cost £381.97... now that is OVER dobble price from what they charge in Denmark... the statement was ok medicine wise, but got wierd charges like "final attention to Ginger"... what in the world is that? |
| garnet |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 5:18:40 PM
We ride or drive past our vet's house as well! Perhaps we should start a new photo thread - AL horses posing outside their medical advisers' houses  . It means we can book first call and know exactly when he will be arriving, and he will also drop off meds to save us a trip to the surgery a few miles away. All the vets in the practice give us excellent service.
Re cost - when we had Jim the Cob he had to have human inhalers for his breathing problems and one of them we tried was well over £40 and didn't last long at 10 puffs a time. I used to share the odd Ventolin with him as I rarely need it - the doctor probably thinks I am doing really well now I don't use so much! I used to take his prescriptions to the local chemist and one day a different assistant said she had the prescription for my husband so I had to explain who Jim Cole was . |
| debs |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 08:25:41 AM
Ali has just had the Liverpool cream treatment so that was 4 visits, the cream and 1 sedation that only came to £500. I would definitely be querying the bill.
Our equine dentist charges £40 a visit (or a fiver for the youngsters) and he comes from up North... |
| pam |
Posted - 25 Dec 2010 : 8:43:26 PM
I think I have also personally sponsored my vet's holidays, but all been very necessary and appreciated! Of Course I'd like to be paying them less but I do appreciate they are value for money and just a necessary part of having animals.
I have a huge amount to be grateful for to my vet - he's passionate about equine breeding and has taught me a huge amount - including encouraging me to go on an AI course (which I did this year), he has put clients my way and has also 'lent' me the practise's AV for the last 2 years as they havn't needed it. They dont do much collecting from stallions and the only 2 enquiries they had for it they put onto me so I could earn some money!
I dont think I could get better than that!
When you consider what a vet practise's overheads etc must be these days its no wonder prices have gone up a lot in the last couple of years.
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