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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2009 :  12:27:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, Spirit, Charismma, Maximus, Carmargue Too would be fun...WH Justice, FS Bengali, Magnum Gold would be great fun....and there are sons in the UK, too!

But again, think Tobago will add to the tremendous power, pretty and 'look at me' attitude...This mare isn't afraid of anything...She will think about things before she makes a decision about what to do and if you ask her she will come through for you....The old war mare lines that we know of-were simply incredibly courageous, intelligent and athletic...You have all that...Tobago is the frosting!
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spirit
Gold Member

England
567 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2009 :  4:18:58 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spirit to your friends list Send spirit a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks again Gari, I have also passed this information on to kate to cheer her up, shes feeling pretty rough at the minute.

Thank you. xxx


Cleworth Hall Farm
df.ballerina@googlemail.com

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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2009 :  08:05:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you, spirit!
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azeer
Silver Member

373 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2009 :  12:39:05 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add azeer to your friends list Send azeer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Egbert
I wonder if I can ask you a question re my mare I hope to put in foal in due course she is Palubnik X Queens Topaz (I am sure you know the breeding well!) however I wont be able to use my own stallion Plumbum (Balaton x Pantomima) for obvious reasons. What do you think would work well? I would be interested in your thoughts. It wont be for a couple of years as she has a ridden career first!
Thanks Sally
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2009 :  10:44:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Sally,

If money is no object there are several that I would love to see cover your girl....You have, of course, a heavy Kuhailan mare despite the fact that 'dad' is pure in the strain Hamdani Simri...First choice would be WH Justice as he is a Seglawi and any issues he has will be corrected by your girl. I love his look and so far all the babies I've seen that he has sired. Emilusz-another fabulous Seglawi sired some breathtaking offspring for Jorgen and Britt Olsen's Oppreva Araber in Sweden. There are pictures on their website of babies to die for. He is very impressive. Then any of our favorite *Carmargues in the UK but first choice would be like Charismma, Ali Khamsin, Camargue Too. Espinho has to be spectacular but his dam line is to Estopa....so suspect you would have a pure in the strain Kuhailan Dajania.

You've a fabulously bred young lady there...would love to see pictures when you have a chance!

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azeer
Silver Member

373 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2009 :  08:59:46 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add azeer to your friends list Send azeer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Egbert - -thank you for your thoughts - very interesting. Photos are sparse yet (I only have a couple of her showing as a youngster) but as soon as the coat is out I will post one. She is a very special mare who is incredibly intuitive, loving, willing with a temperament to die, so I hope that carrys through in any offspring.
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2009 :  12:13:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sally,

Beyond a shadow of a doubt...you have an extraordinary mare whose character will be passed on to all her offspring. The general rule is: size and shape comes from the stallion...all else from the mare...(i.e., you should have little over which to be concerned...) Can't wait to see those photos!

Gari
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vanbro
Bronze Member


United Kingdom
93 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2009 :  11:29:12 PM  Show Profile  Send vanbro an AOL message Bookmark this reply Add vanbro to your friends list Send vanbro a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 'Egbert'
I have an old mare , pure English, a rodania who does not look rodania type.
She is dark chesnut , high withers, long fine hair, fab topline and excellent tail carriage ,good length of neck and good legs and feet. Moves like dream. Her head is nice but not beautiful. Large but sharp ,inturned ears and a very slight dish which is disguised by an unusual blaze. She has a sweet temperament.
She is by Rassendyll (Azah x Tahzay) out of Banella ((Paguerra (Mikeno x Rudena) X Sayonara (Count Rapello x Rabiya))

So in looking for a stallion where do I go ?????( in the UK)
Do you believe in staying in the female tail strain ?

VANBRO -
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2009 :  08:54:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Vanbro,

Yes, your mare is pure in the strain Rodania but she has a very interesting pedigree. Half the strains are not Rodania when counting from the 5th generation...What is more compelling is that when one runs the pedigree one more generation, guess what? Rissalix is featured 7 times within 6 generations and the strength of this line comes from who? Azrek and Azrek - renowned for great motion but who also carried many traits along with that superb motion and Azrek was a Seglawi!

So when you say she doesn't look like a Rodania...Am not surprised. Besides her sweet temperament, and being a superb riding horse my guess is that she extraordinarily intelligent to the point you suspect that she sometimes is reading your mind and then wondering if you are losing yours, "no creature could be that smart!" Trust me she is!

I most emphatically do not believe in breeding pure in the strain as Rodania does dominate so profusely. It is one of the reasons I am so frequently advocating the crosses to the well known Seglawi lines...

What I'd like to see you do, since you do have such a superb individual...is pick out three stallions that make YOUR heart sing....and then lets analyze those pedigrees. If possible, try to pick non Rodania stallions...(If you were to put a gun to my head...for her pedigree, I'd probably suggest three stallions: Akhira in Scotland, Carmargue Too in Yorkshire, and either Tobago or Dervatiw Gwyddion tracing to the Harris import, Nufoud, said to be a Kuhailan Ajuz bred in Saudi Arabia.
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moatside
Platinum Member


England
3224 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2009 :  2:06:21 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add moatside to your friends list Send moatside a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Gari,
Last year you made the following comments on my Pearl


(http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lujayn+lu+lu)

Hi Kim!

You did a great job! And what a fascinating pedigree! Very imaginative breeding...The sire O-Tejo is to Rabdan via the wonderful Anter, a gorgeous stallion known for his sweetness and loyalty...O-Tejo is a 3/4 straight Egyptian + Crabbet with the dam line tracing to the Blunts', Rodania, a Keheilan Ajuz of the Ibn Rodan-the single most successful dam line ever!

The dam, Mont Blanc is roughly 5/8's Crabbet, 1/4 Egyptian+++( some through Crabbet imports) and 1/8 Polish...with sire line to the Nazeer sire line stallion Ibn Moniet El Nefous, a renowned US straight Egyptian sire whose daughters are treasured worldwide. But the creme de la creme of the entire pedigree is the incredible dam line to Bint Helwa by the enormously successful reimport of the blood via Gara. This is the most exotic and successful of the Abbas Pasha, Seglawi Jedran lines and from this line emerged such greats as British, US National and World Champions as *Carmargue, *Simeon Shai and *FS Bengali, S Justadream, Shalie, Mustapha....

Your Christmas present should prove to be a great riding mare, loving, loyal and a terrific broodmare should you choose to breed her. Have any pictures? Would expect she is very pretty with a lot going for her so you might want to think in terms of showing her as well! In any event what a wonderful Christmas present!


We went out to a local show last weekend (1st time out) and she won the Anglo/Arab/PB and was Res Champ in-hand.

A couple of pics to show how she has matured






If I was to consider putting her in foal next year who would you recommend? The foal would be a keeper and a one off so I want to get it as right as I can!!

www.spanglefish.com/kasanarhythmbeads/

Edited by - moatside on 01 May 2009 2:08:31 PM
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2009 :  02:54:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh Kim, Well done and congratulations! That is quite an accomplishment first time out. Pearl looks wonderful. What I'd like to do is suggest a group of names to you and if you can, go see all the horses and the one that makes your heart sing loudest is the one you want to send her to. Am very pleased to read that you plan to keep the foal, too.

Espinho, WH Justice, WSA Charismma, Aarazi, Camargue Too, Arastin (or anything at Cullinghurst), H Tobago, Deriwtiv Gwyddion and there is a colt at Susan George's that I think is absolutely fabulous and out of Ali Khamsin/Ali Khamoud's dam: SG Latif Ibn Liana by Kz Ibreez x Liana El Shaklan. I saw him as a very beautiful if not exotic, ultra sweet, loving youngster and he blew me out of the water as did both sire and dam.

The wonderful aspect to your girl's pedigree is you could probably breed her to a Missouri Mule and have a splendid result.

Thank you for the photos, Kim, and please, keep us posted!
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moatside
Platinum Member


England
3224 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2009 :  06:27:14 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add moatside to your friends list Send moatside a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank You!I am very happy with how she is maturing - easy to do and genuine.

An immpressive list of names - SG Latif Ibn Liana and Arastin are two that I had not seen- both are beautiful.

Lots to think about and lots of nice boys to see!

www.spanglefish.com/kasanarhythmbeads/
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2009 :  11:11:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kim,

Have sent you a PM but think both boys are out of this world-the word 'jaw-dropping' comes to mind, and the farms and their owners are just fabulous!

Think that is one of the extra special treats of the UK farms....fabulous horses, eat off the floor facilities and super owners! Pure magic!

Gari
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cookie
Silver Member


United Kingdom
331 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2009 :  6:56:17 PM  Show Profile  Send cookie an AOL message Bookmark this reply Add cookie to your friends list Send cookie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Egbert,
I am looking for a bit of guidance regarding my filly and her potential hubby.
Her name is Panndora (vodafon kossack x hs pelagrina)She is very sweet but can be hot at times.Her conformation is good,good limbs,body and topline.The only thing I would say that could do with improving is the head and eye.She is quite a big winner so she isnt that bad!I have been thinking along the lines of Egyptian? if I could find one with a good head.Any suggestions welcomed.
jane

j.e holloway
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taranstorm
Gold Member


Wales
952 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2009 :  8:23:46 PM  Show Profile  Send taranstorm an AOL message  Send taranstorm an ICQ Message  Send taranstorm a Yahoo! Message Bookmark this reply Add taranstorm to your friends list Send taranstorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hope don't mind me asking i'm thinking of put my mare Shah hannah with Cumbria kaiser,both have sweet temp and more % egyptian,would they both give me a stunning foal with pretty dish face like shah hannah?

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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2009 :  10:56:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by cookie

Hello Egbert,
I am looking for a bit of guidance regarding my filly and her potential hubby.
Her name is Panndora (vodafon kossack x hs pelagrina)She is very sweet but can be hot at times.Her conformation is good,good limbs,body and topline.The only thing I would say that could do with improving is the head and eye.She is quite a big winner so she isnt that bad!I have been thinking along the lines of Egyptian? if I could find one with a good head.Any suggestions welcomed.
jane


Hi Jane,
When running her pedigree, it looks like two things...She is 1) a 3 year old with 2) heavy Polish blood through both sire and dam...You have to remember that the Polish lines tend to be rather plain to unattractive as 3 year olds and then bloom into absolutely spectacularly gorgeous 4-7 year olds. For some reason nothing looks quite right until they get over that 3 year old hump. Your girl is royally bred and can only imagine that as she matures she will steadily improve and by the time she is 7-knock everyone's socks off.
She is bred to be a major beauty in her own right...Now if she didn't have a good start-the dam was improperly fed/nurtured while Panndora was gestating or she was fed badly as a youngster-she might not live up to her pedigree. So, take a look at the list of stallions above, noted in the post to Moatside, particularly SG Latif Ibn Liana (he has a spectacular head and eye as does Charismma and several others) and you should have something rather notable to think about or look forward to!

Just as an aside...the most beautiful eyes seem to always come in via the Spanish bloodlines...Conversely heads are a matter of taste.
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2009 :  12:15:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by taranstorm

Hope don't mind me asking i'm thinking of put my mare Shah hannah with Cumbria kaiser,both have sweet temp and more % egyptian,would they both give me a stunning foal with pretty dish face like shah hannah?


Well, having never seen Cumbria Kaiser, would hope he is dominant for a pretty head and over all great conformation. Have you seen any of his foals? How are the legs? Heads? Overall balance? The blood suggests that pretty is definitely in the pedigree but when color is bred for alone...often the rules of great conformation, type, etc. are forgotten to achieve Black. So if you are satisfied that all the rules of conformation, type and temperament are met, you should have something lovely. But for color, they look almost as if they are outcrosses for each other. It may make for a wonderful pairing!
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Emagetic
Bronze Member


England
126 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2009 :  10:57:06 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Emagetic to your friends list Send Emagetic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Egbert

As per my pm I'm wondering if you would have a look at the pedigrees of my two Arabs? I'm interested in the characteristics (physical and non physical) that are passed on through the bloodlines and if my two are typical of their breeding. I have managed to pick up a few nuggets of information from this thread so far so hopefully the guesses I've made are correct.

The first one is http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/kamar+al+karif. He is 14.3hds and has a tail female line linking back to Rodania via Rose of Sharon and I understand him to be a Keheilet Rodanieh. He is one of five, I think, and his brothers and sisters have all done well in hand and under saddle. They also vary in colour being grey and chestnut.

Kamar loves to be centre of attention and does sulk if he is not given the attention he feels he deserves. He is quite expressive with his facial expressions. I swear sometimes it is like he is trying to talk to you in English and he appears to understand everything you say to him even if he chooses to ignore it. He also has enough snort and blow for the in hand ring. Could this be partly to do with the crosses to Rodania I wonder?

Here is a picture of him under saddle last year. His disposition is very kind to children and he can sometimes be particular with adults, liking things to be done in a set way. http://www.sweetphotography.com/Galleries/Galleries%202008/Horse%20Shows/Classic/Ring%202/slides/IMG_0343.html



My second Arab is http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/al+haj. He is larger being 15.1hds and has larger features such as his ears and larger head, shaped differently to Kamar (Ali's head shot is 5th from left on my sig pics). He links back to a tail female line of Ghazieh - according to allbreed. I am not sure what strain this makes him or the physical characteristics of his strain. His disposition at home is excellent, so laid back and chilled out. Could this be from the dam line Bint Helwa? I understand he has only one full brother that is slightly larger than him and he is grey and also has the same chilled outlook on life being very kind and gentle. Ali has thicker mane and tail hair in comparison to Kamar with a wave in it whereas Kamar's hair is straight. Ali's tail is also held very high most of the time - could almost be accused of gingering him. Having seen him under saddle he reminds me of a park horse in the way that he is very upright, ears forward and tail very high with lots power, however without the high knee action.

Ali is a stallion and I am wondering what would be a good cross for him although my motive for buying him was not to breed from. If I did decide to breed from him it makes me curious what you think he may pass on to his offspring and what I should look out for in a mare? I would probably want to look for a mating that was shorter in height and had a slightly more dished head. Ali's sire's full brother, Khaneesah, has also been noted for his kind temperament and so it will be interesting to see if you think this would theoretically be passed on being from the sires side.

Any information you have would be most welcome and appreciated.

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