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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
852 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 3:16:45 PM
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Most of my laying hens are ex-batts as I like to give them a new lease of life, you might know that the law changed early this year and British hens now have higher welfare standards than in Europe, so when I got my last batch 2 weeks ago I was expecting them to look better, this is what they looked like !
They are actually in worse condition than the last lot from the old standard battery cages.
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"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Gandhi
www.hispanoarabeswales.co.uk
www.thewelshcrabbetshow.org.uk |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
1565 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 3:35:58 PM
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The "enriched"cages are really a joke.You can have a look at Youtube you can find some videos,it is really just a way to soothe people's conscience along with things like free range,humane slaughter and so on.Hens are in no better condition than before |
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angelarab
Platinum Member
Wales
2871 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 4:59:09 PM
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| Thats just so not right, thanks for posting and educating me to shop better x |
 "Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
www.northwalesarab.co.uk |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6651 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 5:17:57 PM
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An enriched battery system to me means giving them access to the outside world!!
Mine were the same, but are beautifully feathered birds now and their lovely large, orange-yolked eggs are appreciated by many people!! |
Roseanne |
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sab2
Platinum Member
5959 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 5:43:33 PM
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| Poor things , i love watching my girls scratching about in the woods looking for tasty nibbles, just how chickens should be, at least yours are now safe and well and will be able to enjoy themselves like proper chickens should. |
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dinkidoo
Gold Member
United Kingdom
650 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 6:39:44 PM
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| aww poor girlies. My Kathleen must have been a battery hen before we found her. Although she is now the forelady in the hen cabin she never sits on a perch, She always makes herself a nest on the floor or sits in her box. She is so organised too. She has always laid before they are allowed out for the day, the other ladies take their time and lay when they feel like it or even if they feel like it! Kathleen has never ever had a day off in 4 months! She is by far the nicest hen ever!!! |
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doug ault
Platinum Member
Wales
1516 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 6:57:30 PM
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| They will soon recover when they get the opportunity to scratch around outside. expect the odd casualty at first as they encounter natural bacteria they haven't been exposed to before , but most should make it through to rewarding you. |
   DOUG.
http://www.silversun-enterprises.webs.com |
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Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 7:24:30 PM
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At the risk of getting my head bitten off you should all note that farmers get rid of battery hens when they start to moult as they go off lay. This is because the production of new feathers is very energy intense and they can't do both. So what your hens look like is not solely a reflection of there living conditions.
I have seen my free range ( 10 acres of accommodation including trees, hedges, fields, muck heap etc.) hens necks or backs look like the chickens in your photos during moult. Some hens do better then others and do better at some moults then others. There is more food available then they could possibly eat. I have some very fat song birds and rooks.
Better enriched cages then the old ones, it is a step in the right direction. Realistically though there is not enough land space in the UK to produce the no of eggs consumed by us humans completely from free range systems. More to the point are most commercial free range systems really that nice for the hens? Barren treeless areas composed solely of mud. Chickens originate from jungle fowl and find open spaces with no shelter a scary place to find them selves so in reality don't use all of the space available.
To asses the welfare of any system you have to view it from the animals stand point not a human anthropomorphised one. I can highly recommend reading Animals in translation: The woman who thinks like a cow.
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Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com
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Edited by - Dot on 10 Jul 2012 7:27:10 PM |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
3854 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 8:22:12 PM
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Ditto to Dot's recomendation of reading animals in translation by Temple Grandin, but of course I have been thinking and seeing like a cow, horse, dog etc all my life. Now I have chickens I can understand what you mean about the jungle feeling safe. here are mine enjoying the overgrown garden and often out of sight in the long grass.
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
14621 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 8:48:58 PM
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| That is right Dot, they are always in moult when they are moved on - and the fact that they are then exposed to totally alien conditions means they lose their feathers even more quickly than normal. This is in no way supporting caged birds, but their poor appearance is exaggerated by nature, and some of ours look equally poor if they decide to moult when the weather is wet and windy. |
www.specializedsaddles.co.uk
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
852 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 8:57:05 PM
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Hi Dot , I accept some of the points you make but would contest others.
I agree that some of the very large so called free range enterprises are pretty dismal and I suspect that many hens never see the light of day, however I have kept poultry for many years up to a thousand at any one time and have never seen birds lose as much feather as these in moult. I would suggest that actually these birds are in poor condition and that much of their feather loss in moult is due to lack of natural light and a diet though balanced to produce as many eggs as possible is not neccessarily good for the general health of the bird, you only have to look at the colour of their combs. A percentage also have leg problems.
I agree also that there is insufficient land in the UK for all eggs to be produced free range, we all eat far too much protein as a nation and the simple answer would be for us all to eat less, I do know I'm in cloud cuckoo land on that one !
I'm not sure if you're referring to me anthromorphosising, I assure you I don't, apologies if that wasn't directed at me.
Of course enriched cages are a step in the right direction, certainly this last batch birds have been more stimulated and have adapted more quickly, dust bathing, scrathing etc etc. The problem is a cage is still a cage and I'm assuming that you feel the same as you have a free range enterprise
Mandy |
"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Gandhi
www.hispanoarabeswales.co.uk
www.thewelshcrabbetshow.org.uk |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2437 Posts |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
852 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 9:44:33 PM
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Thanks Fee ! Just for comparison, here's an ex-batt from last November
Its such a terrible waste that most of these yearling hens land up in dog food when they can continue to lay reasonably well for another 2-3 years and its not just the ex-batts the big free range producers also replace their hens after a year |
"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Gandhi
www.hispanoarabeswales.co.uk
www.thewelshcrabbetshow.org.uk |
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lynnd
New Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 10:19:44 PM
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Most farmers get their hens in at point of lay at about 16 weeks and keep them for 13 months they then get rid this is regardless of production or if they are moulting or not but this is when the big supermarkets say that shell density changes and they get to many reject eggs so will not purchase eggs from hens older than this.I have recently purchased some hens from a large free range farm over 18000 birds and it was him who gave me this info i have 20 hens and get between 14 and 18 eggs everyday they also looked like the ones above but now have all their feathers but the egg production has always been the same. |
www.Mbala-Arabians.co.uk |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
14621 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2012 : 09:21:17 AM
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| The commercial hybrids will lay continually for around 15 months from point-of-lay to first moult, so they will change just before the moult is due as they do not want non-layers in the flock. We find the shells do get thinner, but only when they get to about 4 or 5yo when they have a more natural life - if they are being forced to lay for too long commercially they start to use the calcium from their bones to supplement the shells and end up with broken legs etc. |
www.specializedsaddles.co.uk
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Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2012 : 11:32:06 AM
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One of the reasons for hens not laying for a period is so they can replenish there calcium and other body tires to start laying again. All birds mobilise calcium from there bones during egg laying. They also mobilise pigment stores from there skin, especially noticeable in yellow legged hens, to make those yellow yolks we all love.
Any chickens comb will change colour depending on its health status and wether it is approaching moult. It is one of the main visual indicators of sexual receptiveness to cockerels hens display that they are coming in to lay. It is perfectly normal for it to go pale at moult, all bout diversion of blood supply to more important resources.
My anthropomorphic comment was not aimed at anyone in particular. I wholly support well run high welfare farming regardless of the system used. Happy animals are better producers, I am an inveterate meat eater though not 365 days a year.
Rejected eggs afar caused by all sorts of things not just thin shells, any egg destined for sale as a raw egg must not be soiled in any way. Eggs are not washed pre sale as this is more likely to introduce bacteria in to the egg whose shell has tiny pores init. Soiled eggs end up in cooked foodstuffs so are not wasted but the price paid to the farmer is lower.
I am not a commercial producer in anyway, we just have 12 hens at present 10 hatched this year, with a few sheep and horses. I am a vet student at present so am having lots and lots of welfare, behaviour etc stuff thrown at me and yes some of it is making me reassess some of my thinking on certain aspects of the farming industry and pet animal care. |
Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com
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Edited by - Dot on 11 Jul 2012 11:34:51 AM |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
852 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2012 : 11:57:41 PM
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I don't want to prolong this debate, I simply haven't had the time to respond to it until now and will keep it short !
I simply can't agree with you Dot regarding comb colour, it is as indictive of good health in a bird in the same way as a gleaming coat and a bright eye in a horse.
As I said before I agree at moult there is some loss of pigment, but in the birds I've kept it is for a short period and pinking rather than completely washed out. One of the reasons these birds are so pale is because they are housed at much higher temperatures and therefore dissipate heat through their combs and lose pigment at the same time, they are also flaccid, these are not healthy signs and are not just about being in moult.
Anyway I think we're going to have to agree to differ on this one,
Mandy |
"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Gandhi
www.hispanoarabeswales.co.uk
www.thewelshcrabbetshow.org.uk |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
2617 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2012 : 08:52:03 AM
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My Nephew worked at a Battery chicken farm. He drove the tractor which towed the trailer of poo away. The poo comes along in a conveyor and empties into the trailer, he hooks up the trailer and drives the dung away. Or, rather, he doesn't anymore. Hes a vegetarian, so it was not a good choice of job. Then he heard from staff that when the chickens claws get stuck wrapped around the cage, they just cut their legs off. He wasn't impressed with that but never actually saw it. One day, a chicken came up the poo conveyor; an escapee.
It was in his trailer to tow away. His Manager told him to 'wring its neck'. So he waited for the Manager to go, jumped out, put in under his coat and then hid it in the cab. He took it home and made it a home in an empty stable and gradually got it used to the light and so on, until it was healthy again. Then he rehomed it.
He didn't like the Manager, he began not to respect him, he did like the chicken, for its bravery in escaping.
His actions in hiding the chicken for the day in his cab was discovered, didn't go well. And, apparently, not following the instructions of the Manager i.e. 'Wring its neck' is a serious issue. He got sacked.
Nice young man, very loving and caring, must get that from his Dad. Startlingly tall dark and handsome too, gets that from his Dad too I think.
He was always bringing animals home. Just helped himself once to a very thin pony from a field of mud. He kept her for the winter, seems she was in foal. He cared for her and got her looking really good. Took her home in the Spring before she foaled. Owner never said a word.
Nice lad. |
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Sazza
Bronze Member
England
246 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2012 : 12:24:26 AM
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| would love to rescue some battery hens, so would my hubby but he is worried the dog would go after them (shes a greyhound and her prey drive is pretty high) |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
3854 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2012 : 09:10:07 AM
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| Build them a run Saza it ia s still better than a cage and will keep them safe. I thought my jack russel would be a problem, but she has been introduced carefull and the chooks run towards me so it puts her off. The collies are a different issue. |
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glo
Gold Member
England
729 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2012 : 5:01:38 PM
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| Tomos, I would call your hers oven ready, and believe it or not you can buy little coats for hens to stop them getting wet, on a well known auction web site. |
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Edited by - glo on 09 Aug 2012 5:02:11 PM |
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Topic |
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Enriched Battery Hen Cages
