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heathermcbreen
Platinum Member
England
2132 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Feb 2015 : 11:12:43 AM
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Do any of you know how bad the risks are in gelding an older stallion. I have a mini pony stallion .. nearly 12yrs ... and he has always lived with his mini wife and they have had a foal a yr. I dont want his wife to have any more foals but dont want to separate them as Oscar would go mental. Oscar is 30" and broken to drive .. a very characterful little horse and a lovely chap. I am going to take him to my horse vet for the surgery along with his last yrs colt but I am a bit worried. The vets are going to speak to me later today and I guess they will advise me of the risks but I would like opinion from you knowledgeable peeps....Also I am aware that after being a stallion for so long it may take a while for his tendancies to leave him .. but do they generally quieten... ie will I be able to turn him out with others without him being a nuisance to my arab mare, and part bred arab mare.
Cheers Heather
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2015 : 1:45:04 PM
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| He may still try to mount them when in season. stallions that have never covered make better geldings, but he will be quiter and in time happer. |
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Edited by - glo on 25 Feb 2015 5:45:09 PM |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2015 : 4:23:02 PM
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| I have had 2 stallions cut late and never had any problems. I think it is a sensible solution for him and he can lead a happy life with his "wife" while you no longer have the foals. It would be a good idea not to introduce the others the year he is cut (this year?) and see what happens next year. One of mine was sold as a riding horse and is out with geldings at the livery yard and the other (cut at 8) was just with my gelding for a few years until I bought a mare. He was no bother, the other gelding was the boss and herded the mare. When I had a foal Lanta (the ex stallion) was like a kindly old uncle. My other gelding was not nice to them and they gave him a wide berth but when mum got fed up with their antics they would go and jump all over Lanta. When he had had enough he just turned his shoulder to them and they bounced off him, he never once even put his ears back. We always called him "Uncle Lanta". He was such a kind, gentle horse. |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2015 : 6:04:37 PM
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If it's just that you don't want him to sire any more foals but he can live with his wife for life, can he not be vasectomised? Just a thought, I don't know if it is feasible.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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sammewl
Junior Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2015 : 6:31:02 PM
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I have just had a 9 year old stallion gelded and he had covered mares. It is best to have the surgical castrate if they are older (as it seems your vet has told you). I would go to the best vet you know as there are obviously risks involved with anaesthesia. The vet I went to had a much lower percentage of ops with complications than the average. Playboy recovered from his op immediately and was fine going through the whole procedure.
He became quieter within one day and less interested in snorting at other horses. One week later, having escaped and being prepositioned by a very flirtatious, in season (but infertile - phew) mare. Was mildly interested but definitely losing his stallion-ness.
When i investigated this for mine as he will be going to live with mares. Suggestions for loss of hormones and stallion behaviour ranged from 4 to 6 weeks with some comments saying up to 6 months. Most input from people who had done this was that it was normally more around the 4 to 6 week range. I am looking forward to see him enjoying turn out with other horses and it looks like that is going to be possible very soon. I am lucky that were he is recovering he can be tested with mares he knows but cannot get into foal. All horses are different but I'l post how he gets on here so you have another example of someone doing this but a bit further down the road. |
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Ari
Platinum Member
1657 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2015 : 8:00:53 PM
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| Can't help with practical experience of gelding a stallion late in life other than its the best way for a happy life for him. There are risks with anaesthesia and I had to face that with my boy for a leg injury. Agree with advice already given, vets that do a lot of ops are the best bet and I am sure you have that in mind. |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2015 : 8:57:51 PM
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| Originally posted by sammewl
One week later, having escaped and being prepositioned by a very flirtatious, in season (but infertile - phew) mare. Was mildly interested but definitely losing his stallion-ness.
I am lucky that were he is recovering he can be tested with mares he knows but cannot get into foal.
I guess if he's gelded it shouldn't matter wether the mares are fertile or not,since he isn't anymore 
I also think it depends on the horse.Both Pasch and Armos (especially the latter who I know for sure was entire until 4 yrs old) will have a hard on  if next to a flirtatious-in season mare,it was always through a fence and that's good because Armos looked ready to act,small bites and all.
I have seen a pony gelding (small arab size) who happily lived with two pony mares and he covered them daily,much to their enjoyment  .Was otherwise a sweet pony.
I think horses and ponies who have been living with mares are more balanced even when entire,they know how to behave and are used to social interaction,so it shouldn't be a problem for him,unless he becomes protective of his wife but that happens to geldings as well.
I have read somewhere that 6 months is the time it takes for the extra testosterone to completely get out of their system but most of it I guess goes before.
As for the risks,apart from the anaesthesia,they are I think related to bleeding but the vet will be able to tell you about that,many horses are gelded late so it shouldn't be a problem. |
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heathermcbreen
Platinum Member
England
2132 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2015 : 7:40:50 PM
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Oh thanks everyone, your combined experience on this makes me feel confident that certainly by next yr I should hopefully be able to turn him out with the two bigger mares as well as his wife. The one time he managed to get in the field with the big horses (a few yrs ago) he nearly got killed by them. This is because he does not realise he is tiny in comparison to other horses and attempted to herd them up and dominate them... they did not like this much and although they were not trying to really hurt him he was basically nearly tripping them over ... they were galloping straight over him and the odd fly kick at him very nearly took his head off. Luckily he survived unscathed but it was terrible trying to get him out the field and he seemed impervious to fear or injury.... testosterone !!.
My vets are a large animal practice specialising in equines, I have used them for nearly 30yrs and they are great. Only down side is the cost £400 !! only £150 for the yearling colt. The extra cost is because it is a more invasive surgical procedure and needs two vets. The main risk is with older stallions there is a bigger area attaching the offending articles to the belly. Stitching is required because of the risk of intestines dropping out of the larger hole. Germs are more of an issue as with closing a wound it stops the site from draining so well, swelling may also be a bit more of an issue. I think I will have to go for it though. I have never heard of a horse vasectomy instead of a castration... but that would not stop/reduce the stallion tendancies which is also a desired objective. Cheers everyone, will let you know the result..... poor old Oscar.... Think his wife will be grateful tho! |
Edited by - heathermcbreen on 26 Feb 2015 8:47:15 PM |
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sammewl
Junior Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2015 : 11:44:57 PM
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...you wouldn't believe i had a biology degree would you !!!!!
i think i had heard that they are still fertile for a while after the chop but thinking about it. how. where have you got your tadpoles stashed!!!
my boy is so much calmer around other horses already and he always was calm in the stable. Yes it is pricey it cost me £450 but i think it is worth it. in my mind i am buying our life together with the price to own him split between his previous owner and to the harvester of his bits! I think it is a shame that surgical castrate costs so much as it may be a reason stallions do not get gelded when if not being bred from there is no reason to keep them entire.
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2015 : 4:06:03 PM
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LOL Sammewl, perhaps you're confusing the length of time for hormones to reduce rather than for fertility to reduce?
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2015 : 6:01:53 PM
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Think they are still fertile for 30 days or so!
That's what vet told us after he had mounted our old pony!
Giz not vet :) |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2015 : 6:27:07 PM
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| LOL Debs! |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2015 : 10:22:58 AM
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Glad it wasn't the vet, Debs, I was going to suggest it was rather unprofessional behaviour!
They can be fertile for several weeks after castration I am told. Make sure your vet gives Oscar an antibiotic jab and leaves you a course of antibiotics to add to a feed to make sure he doesn't get an infection, better sure than sorry. My vet always does that for any colt I have gelded and I have never had a problem.
There is always a risk attached with horses, how many break a leg turned out in their field? but you are doing the right thing for everyone. He will be so much happier than having to be separated and life will be so much easier for you. |
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heathermcbreen
Platinum Member
England
2132 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 9:48:48 PM
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| mini stallion and his son both gelded today. Both given long acting antibiotic injections. Both seem fine so far. Will keep fingers crossed for the next few days. |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 11:03:52 AM
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| I could not give advice as no experience. I'm sure they will have a long and happy (non-fruitful) life, and seems like the best weather, not too many flies. |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 12:16:11 PM
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Just keep a careful eye on them. I always get a 5 day course of antibiotics to follow on from the long lasting jab; small price to pay to make sure there is no infection. One of my stallions did swell up just after the long acting jab was no longer active; no infection but got the powders anyway and my vet now knows that I like to have them so I don't even have to ask.
Glad the deed (or deeds) are done, much better for everyone. |
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Ari
Platinum Member
1657 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 7:33:36 PM
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| Glad they are recovering well and the weather is perfect, no mud, cool not cold and no flies. Long happy lives with freedom and companions ahead. |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 9:30:34 PM
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| Glad the op went well, fingers crossed they both settle down quickly and hope they are not too sore tomorrow |
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heathermcbreen
Platinum Member
England
2132 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 08:49:24 AM
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| Little yearling is bouncing about as though nothing has happened. Old boy is a bit subdued ... seems very deflated and sad. Eating well and bright but just not his usual cheeky happy self. I feel so mean at the moment. I do hope he cheers up. I suppose it may take a few days. Interestingly on the vet notes on wound care and after treatment it does say "turn out with mares is inadvisable for two months". Thanks for all help and advice. |
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alison
Platinum Member
Wales
1810 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 3:11:54 PM
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| I'm sure he will back to his cheeky self soon, and definitely better for him and his wife. xx |
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Ziadomira
Platinum Member
England
1635 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 4:12:27 PM
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| Vet advice is usual. Your boy still thinks he is a stallion. Hormones have to sort themselves out before he stops being interested in girls |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 7:45:36 PM
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| Don't feel mean,he's probably subdued because of the operation and not because of losing his family jewels I'm sure he will soon be all right.Of course (hopefully) less stallion like than before but after all that's what you wanted! |
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sammewl
Junior Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 8:46:20 PM
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You really shouldn't feel mean as I'm sure its the start of an easier life for him - just this bit is probably a bit difficult. PB has now been gelded for about 9 weeks. He is just so chilled out! He has gone from being so hyper with other horses and so reactive to having fun mucking around in his fields with his new mare friends. They thought he was amazing when he first arrived (all came into season) and I was shocked to see they managed to 'talk' him into the act. There was no malice or aggression in it though (and no foals!) and since they have come out of season and stopped bothering him he has just been enjoying the grass!
There can be a lot of doom laden comments about 'retaining stallion behaviour' but it was lovely for me to see him forming a natural gang with his mares and witnessing horse behaviour. none of them have become more un-handleable, all in fact have become more so as the mares are more chilled with him around too. And although he likes to neigh them in for tea he does not fret if someone goes out without him. I am so pleased I did this for him and I think you will feel the same about your old boy once he has recovered. xx
edited to add, mmm that sounds like I enjoyed watching the err ahem etc!!! but it was great to see them just being horses smelling, herding, posturing, squealing! Being their social selves and not just eating. |
Edited by - sammewl on 17 Apr 2015 8:50:44 PM |
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Ari
Platinum Member
1657 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 8:51:14 PM
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| Glad the young lad is bouncing back. As for old boy, don't feel mean, you have done the best for his long term wellbeing. He is eating well so just taking the change a little bit harder bless him. |
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heathermcbreen
Platinum Member
England
2132 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2015 : 1:11:32 PM
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Thanks everyone for your positive comments... I'm pleased to report Oscar is much more cheerful today... is regaining his cheerful look and not now standing with head drooping with a "my life is over" expression on his face. It may be my imagination but he does seem to have a slightly confused look on his face.... you know... like he has forgotten something but not sure what. Toffee (his wife) will be having her last baby by him in about 7 weeks. I will see what happens when she returns to season after that. His yearling just gelded son has been sold for £300 to a lovely lady who has competition showjumpers, and wants a family pet/travelling companion/little riding pony for grandchildren. Since gelding was £160, vaccinations, wormers, microchipping and registration, plus keep for a year all add up, it makes sure you make a loss on any pony breeding. However he is going to a lovely home and I am satisfied with that.
I have appreciated all feedback from you knowledgeable peeps. Thanks Sammie for your experience with PB, I hope Oscar will stay a bit stallionish and still look out for the others like "I'm the Man" The way a stallion carries himself (even a little one like Oscar) is always a bit more impressive than a gelding... sorry gelding owners ...oh I am one now..never thought Id ever say that!
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Edited by - heathermcbreen on 18 Apr 2015 1:19:56 PM |
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Gelding at 12yrs ? Miniature Pony not Arab
