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Barribarrs
Bronze Member
Scotland
212 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 2:20:15 PM
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I'm hoping someone can help. I have 2 horses that are seriously ill. Vet not sure what's going on and, unfortunately, the first vet wasted 3 weeks doing nothing but trying to prove that increased feed and stabling would solve it. As I predicted (because I know what they were being fed because I'm their mum) it didn't.
I found Hunter, down, in the field 5 weeks ago this Sunday. Called the vet and she thought he'd colicked, gone down and couldn't get back up. It was a horribly cold, snowy day. He was given pain relief and anti spasmodic drugs and I was given 2 hours to get him inside or they'd have to put to sleep. He was eating the whole time - hay and hard feed - but didn't have the strength in his back legs to get up. Called a farmer and he arrived with tractor and bucket, scooped him up and brought him up to the stables.
After a night in the stable, he was still down. Absolutely no strength in his back legs. The evil vet wanted to put to sleep but I wanted to give him a chance and find out what's going on. My farrier was due that day so between us we got him on his feet (ropes, pulleys, chain block) and after 30 minutes of wobbliness, he was weight bearing on all legs, would resist a shove and balance no problem. Another vet came to see him on Tuesday and despite the doom and gloom story he'd been fed by evil vet, he was surprised to see Hunter on his feet, eating, drinking, supporting his weight and generally a bright and alert horse. In a support harness.
The following Friday (4 weeks tomorrow), Raja was down in the same field. Not quite as bad as Hunter and with the help of passing dog walkers (they pass the horses all the time), I got him back on his feet. Walked him up to the stables, by which time evil vet had arrived. Put it down to a harsh winter - which it hasn't been - and not enough feed (unlimited hay and 2 big feeds a day).
Kept Raja in and next day, he was down in the stable and couldn't get up. No strength in his back legs. Got him up thanks to the chain block and out of the stable walking, he even went up and down hill.
Next day, same again so a second horse support system went up in the stable. The harnesses aren't holding them up, the ropes are loose and the horses move around in the stable, albeit limited, they are there to prevent the horses going down.
Hunter's back story is that he'd had a spell in August where he lost weight for no apparent reason. He had bloods taken, 2 vet practices came to see him and nobody could figure out why. It was put down to his age (he's 4) and worms (he was wormed 3 times between July and August and they're all wormed regularly). I did get him back up in weight eventually but he was in a 20 acre field with 3 others and I started giving them hay and his food allowance was upped. He had started to lose condition again and his food had been increased and he had unlimited hay in his field. He's been rugged since August, although he left the 20 acre field in October and was going between a 2 acre and 3 acre field with his 3 field mates, and from July to February, he's been wormed a total of 6 times - based on vet's advice.
Raja doesn't have a back story. He started to lose condition about a week before he went down and I would stand in the field to make sure the other boys weren't stealing his food and I started putting up haynets just incase he wasn't getting to the hay. He has been wormed regularly and rugged since September.
I tried Raja off the ropes for the past 2 nights as he is the stronger of the two. He was still standing yesterday morning but this morning he was down and couldn't get back up without assistance - god bless the chain block. Neither are putting on weight despite having constant access to hay, Alfa A and several feeds a day. Raja is anemic and gets Redcell in his feed. Hunter is pooing huge amounts and it's sloppy and very smelly. They've had bloods taken - few things popped up but nothing that would cause alarm aside from Raja and his anemia which hasn't improved. We did a glucose test last Friday to check the small intestine because they've maintained weight, not increased, but both results were normal. Handed in a pee and poo sample for both yesterday to check if there's protein in the urine but other than that, I'm no further forward. I've had ulcers suggested, kidney, chronic grass sickness (despite me asking the evil vet if it could be that and it was dismissed). I've questioned pancreas, poisoning, liver but told no.
Has anyone experienced or heard of symptoms like these. Both horses are alert, bright, eating like, well, horses, shout when they hear me, will walk out and graze, Hunter bites and kicks like he always has. Both horses are 4 years old, Hunter's dad is Raja's half brother (same mum) and Hunter shared a field with dad, Hass, Raja and one other 4 year old boy, Abi. Hass and Abi are in perfect condition. Hunter is arabxpaint and Raja is arab. Both chestnut.
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 3:38:59 PM
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So sorry, I do hope things improve. My only advice is change vets and it does sound like some form of poisoning.
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 4:30:35 PM
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| Sorry to hear your horses are not well, it does sound like some sort of poisoning and also thought grass sickness, I also think you should get a second opinion or get referered to Newmarket or RVC or similar depending on where you are, you could post on the horse and hound forum so many more people on that site so you may have a better chance of someone knowing what it may be, I really hope you find out whats wrong . |
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garnet
Platinum Member
2382 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 6:27:14 PM
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| Surprised vet hasn't already suggested referral. Don't know if horses would be well enough to travel but if not I would at least want a second opinion from a specialist. Hope you manage to get them sorted out - what a worry for you. |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 6:30:31 PM
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| Are there front legs shaky! Are there tummys tucked up like a grey hound! Are they looking poor all of a sudden! ( like over night) |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 6:46:52 PM
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| A friend of mine had terrible problems a couple of years ago, she lost 12 ponies , slightly different to yours as they lost huge amounts of weight quite quickly, vets had no idea what was wrong . They took 2 of the dead ponies for pm and found they had metal poisoning, in her case it was high levels of cadnium, only detected within so many hours of death. Is your land wet, is the grass low, what area are you in ? Yours may be something totally different but try looking into what they have eaten in the field etc. I shall keep my fingers crossed for you as i know just what my friend went through trying to trace what was wrong with her ponies, i took as many as i could to mine to recover which they have . If you need any info on what my friend did pm me and i can ask her if she minds talking to you, like i say dose not sound the same as your problem but here to help if we can . |
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Ari
Platinum Member
1657 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 6:48:47 PM
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You must be beside yourself with worry but the possitive is both are alert and eating well. In my experience a horse that feels unwell or in pain doesn't have a good appetite. I have never seen these symptoms but would be thinking that it is something they have both been exposed to or have eaten that has caused the weakness.
Agree with good advice already given, 2nd opinion or referral to specialist vets nearest to you.
I wish you all the best
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 7:24:57 PM
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I can't help, sorry but just wanted to show support...
I would get a 2nd opinion, hope the worst is over , please let us know. I can only imagine what you are going through x |
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Barribarrs
Bronze Member
Scotland
212 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 7:41:10 PM
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Thank you all for your advice and info, very much appreciated . Pee results came back today. Hunter's was clear, Raja's had blood and protein. So he's starting a course of anti biotics tomorrow for suspected infection in bladder or kidneys. They both had very low protein levels in blood test results - news to me but evil vet was the one who took initial bloods - so poo samples being sent to check for blood in the poo. Our main priority is finding where the protein is being lost and stopping it. Vet thinks weakness in back legs is down to muscle wastage because of protein loss and this should recover when levels are back to normal. The stomach and large intestine are now suspects. But we're ruling things out. I am taking it one day at a time, every day they're here, it's a bonus and I get to keep fighting for them.
Sab2, I'm in Aberdeen. Ground isn't too wet, right by the sea. I'll mention it to the vet - she's a good vet, unlike evil vet - as shes said that testing for toxins is hard unless you know what you're looking for. The others, I have 26 in total, are not showing any untoward signs but saying that, Raja and Hunter didn't look sick or sorry. Still don't.
Glo, front legs are fine. Hunter powers ahead and his back legs struggle to keep up. They've never looked tucked up and aside from losing condition, both were bright prior to the collapse. Even when Hunter was being hoisted up, he continued eating. And hasn't stopped. He should be a barrel. |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 8:48:43 PM
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Yes vets right testing for toxins is very hard, is there any hair loss off their bodies ? With the metal poison there was hair loss so places went bald will see if i can find pics. Good news that something is showing up and will keep my fingers crossed for you as the not knowing is dreadful  . Are you on water in troughs or stream/spring water ?
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Barribarrs
Bronze Member
Scotland
212 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 9:02:11 PM
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| There is hair loss, patches on Raja's hind leg and belly. Was put down to him being down but not long enough to develop sores. But it's confined to those areas. Not so much for Hunter, he has pressure sores from being down so patches of dead skin but no huge bald patches. 2 fields are buckets filled from troughs, the others are troughs. |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2015 : 10:12:34 PM
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| Hair loss was one of the things we noticed on the metal poisoning , it seemed to come off in patches , not all lost hair just the worse ones. |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
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Etoile
Silver Member
275 Posts |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2015 : 3:52:17 PM
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Oh god that's terrible, what a worry. Someone local to me lost two horses in a couple of days - the current theory is that antifreeze was put in the water tank...would that be possible?
I hope a diagnosis is found and your two make a full recovery.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2015 : 6:15:43 PM
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Etoile i second the Royal Dick, been reffered up there twice now with a horse and a dog and both times they were fantastic and very caring, sadly my homebred filly didn,t come home but Percy Pointless would not be here without them.
Barribarrs how are they today ? |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2015 : 7:26:41 PM
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Sounds like some kind of poisoning to me,too,hope you can find the cause and that your horses recover  |
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Barribarrs
Bronze Member
Scotland
212 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2015 : 9:18:41 PM
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| They're both the same today; eating, bright and alert, supporting their weight and moving about freely, although Raja's legs are starting to get a bit swollen - fluid retention. I've passed on all possible causes to be considered, thank you very much for more options. I'd already mentioned anti freeze but vet didn't think the symptoms matched. I'm still not ruling it, or malicious poisoning, out and will keep asking. They think I'm being paranoid about the horses - their fields are on a public footpath, lots of people have access to them. Nice vet has been talking to Dick vet and other vets and specialist has been mentioned and will make an appearance soon to take over when their testing is complete. The rest of the 4 legged field living family members are helping take my mind off of what is happening by demanding food regularly and making sure I respond immediately to any demand, with the occasional heart stopping moment when I find someone lying down, relaxing, and they're chased back on to their feet. In fact, any horse lying down in any field that I pass has my stomach churning and fills me with the desire to check they can get back up. My poor horses will never get to lie down again. |
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heathermcbreen
Platinum Member
England
2132 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2015 : 9:39:03 PM
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I do so hope they recover, you deserve it as you have tried everything. Best of luck to you and them. x
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Edited by - heathermcbreen on 06 Mar 2015 9:39:35 PM |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2015 : 9:54:00 PM
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Well thats encouraging that they are still eating , bright and alert. I have to say i did giggle at the thought of you running round making everybody jump to their feet every time they have a kip   |
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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2015 : 09:52:44 AM
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| Poisoning of some sort was my initial thoughts too. Id be getting someone out to take soil samples from various parts of the field and get them tested. Im sure someone from your nearest Scottish Agricultural College would come out to do it, or even a rep from a fertiliser company. They will have to tools to core it. |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2015 : 4:41:41 PM
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| You haven't put them in different stabling e.g. converted barn as there could be lead paint in old buildings. Lead poising should show up as basophilic stippling in a blood film if they look at the film manually. Just a thought as some of the symptoms could indicate lead poisining. |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
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Barribarrs
Bronze Member
Scotland
212 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2015 : 11:08:18 PM
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| There are no trees in or around their fields, only gorse, and the fields have 6' fencing (straight wire with chicken wire around the bottom half and livestock fencing above that) to stop them bouncing out as they're currently entire, all but Hass, although they're kept away from the girls. They're stabled in new stables, about 2 years old, that were bought from Saltire Stables. There's nothing painted within reach of their fields. The hay was in a big plastic box - big enough to take a bale of hay and strong plastic that can't be bitten - so it's not on the ground and the hay has been put in these buckets for well over a year, possibly 2. Water came from a tap across from the field until someone mangled it and then I started taking it from the trough in the neighbouring field. Vet also checked around the field to make sure there was nothing that could be causing it. Raja is very lame on his front left and Hunter is very lame on his back left, a new development. Hunter possibly injured his trying to kick me into next week. Hunter's pressure sores are healing so that's one point to the positives. Autumn (tb) went flat out in the barn tonight mid-hay delivery, thought she was dead. When I shouted and clapped - in a non panicking, feel sick to my stomach kind of way - she looked at me as if I were mad, got up and went back to her hay. Not sure if she just wanted a nap or what's going on so vet is out to see her tomorrow just to check. Khassy (arab) has been rubbing her bottom and has a couple of less than pretty rubs so she's had a bit of a clean and cream and vet will also take a look at her tomorrow. As well as checking out the boys and their leg issues. The vets must be loving me. Would someone like my life? |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2015 : 10:22:25 AM
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| Has this all happened since you started taking the water from the trough in the neighbouring field? If so it could be lead poisoning as old water pipes were lead and if the water isn't used regularly there could be a build up of lead in the water. Just a thought. I do hope you get to the bottom, it sounds an expensive nightmare! |
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Barribarrs
Bronze Member
Scotland
212 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2015 : 7:07:13 PM
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There are cows in the field from April to October and I used the trough prior to the tap being installed earlier this year. The boys were out today for their daily exercise and Raja had a spring in his step. A bounce, actually. Bounced up and fell down. But we got back up - with a little help from mum. And then he bounced again but stayed upright this time. Hunter had a kick out at Raja but ate rather than walked. Going to check their weight tomorrow. Fingers crossed they've put on weight, even just a little.
These are the 2 boys that are ill - when they were fighting fit.
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Mystery illness
