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sab2
Platinum Member



8467 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  11:13:19 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add sab2 to your friends list Send sab2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am posting this on behalf of my friend whos Paso Fino pony is suffering from this. What do people feed their EMS horse/ponies on , my friend is really struggling to get the weight on him, i saw him last week and he is ever so thin, looks like an rspca case nearly, he is being ridden for approx 4 miles a day and is fed two feeds a day but he is not a good hay/haylage eater, his grass is very much restricted as when hes had more grass he gets signs of lami. In an ideal world they would like to get another 30kgs on him but are struggling to get it on, the vet suggested soya oil ( think she said soya ) any ideas or help will be very gratful that i can pass on , thankyou .

Edited by - sab2 on 11 Jul 2014 7:00:50 PM
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
4531 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  11:20:32 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add barbara.gregory to your friends list Send barbara.gregory a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Try Coolstance Copra meal; my rescue horse looked like a hat rack when I got her and never put on much weight. Then I read a lot about it on the internet a few years ago and decided to give it a try. I started her on it at the beginning of winter (as that was when I saw about it) and she came out of winter looking like a different horse, it really was amazing. She kept the weight on all over summer and I started it again in the winter and she has been fantastic. I never thought she could look like that. I wish I had known about it years ago as it has been around a long time I just hadn't heard of it. I think it is also OK for EMS horses but google it and speak to your vet.

Good luck.

Barbara


Edited by - barbara.gregory on 07 Apr 2014 11:22:04 AM
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Pasch
Platinum Member


2277 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  12:13:14 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pasch to your friends list Send Pasch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If he's eating very little grass and hay and working daily it's no wonder he's thin with only 2 feeds a day.Giving more cereals isn't an option if he's prone to lami but maybe the same feed could be given in 3 or 4 times instead.(I don't know the amount he's given but anything more than 1.2kg at once is not properly assimilated)
Any way to make him eat more hay?change type of hay?Oil is good I give that to my old boy but you can't overdo it I think it is heavy on the liver otherwise.
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sab2
Platinum Member


8467 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  12:25:37 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sab2 to your friends list Send sab2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pasch the vets want him worked as it helps his EMS , his feeds are fibre based so they are fed in a large bucket for him to eat as he wishes on vets advice. They would love to find a way to make him eat more hay/haylage but he will only eat a certain amount then leaves it.
Barbara i shall pass this on , thankyou.
Edited to say hes not allowed cereals .

Edited by - sab2 on 07 Apr 2014 12:33:19 PM
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Pasch
Platinum Member


2277 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  12:32:57 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pasch to your friends list Send Pasch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes I didn't mean he didn't have to work and I thought feeds were grains based.Barbara will look into Copra meal myself for old Blue who's difficult to keep condition on,wonder if it's available here.
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sab2
Platinum Member


8467 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  12:39:55 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sab2 to your friends list Send sab2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe you could find a supplier who would post it to you if you cannot find it Pasch , would depend on how much postage is though i would think the bags will be quite heavy but worth asking if it works.
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DianaSC
Bronze Member

Spain
184 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  1:47:16 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DianaSC to your friends list Send DianaSC a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope this is relevant and helpful.

Kalli, now 18, has had a couple of horrendous years, first a hock fracture which was initially misdiagnosed, then her left eye removed after a long standing problem. Throughout this time she was losing weight/muscle, initially from her hindquarters, then all over. I was becoming increasingly concerned. All the Vets put it down to her age, plus lack of use of her rear end because of the fracture. Last August she had a full MOT with extensive blood tests. All was normal. We talked about EMS, EPSM or something similar, neither the Vet nor I wanted to go as far as a muscle biopsy. At this time, her weight (according to my tape) was down to about 365 kilos, her normal adult weight has always been about 415 - 420 kilos.

Vet suggested feeding Pavo Care4life which is a non cereal mix of herbs, and adding oil.(My initial reaction to her weight loss was to up her cereal feed which I think was a big mistake.)

So, for 7 months now, she's had 1 kilo of Care4life mixed with 300 ml of corn oil daily. She also has alfalfa (we can't get hay in our part of Spain), as much as she will eat. Within a fortnight she seemed happier and she has steadily regained weight. She was back up to 400 kilos before Christmas and is now 420 kilos. Yay! I can't see her ribs anymore!

For the last month, I have reduced the oil to 200 ml daily. I will slowly try to bring it down more if possible. I don't think she will ever regain all the muscle loss as she just does her own thing now. But she seems OK in herself. A few weeks ago she steamed across the paddock just for the hell of it, a rare sight now. I cried.



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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
4531 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2014 :  2:26:13 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add barbara.gregory to your friends list Send barbara.gregory a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Copra meal is high in oil (it is the coconut flesh after the oil has been extracted but is still high in oil). I am not sure where you are in the country but if you google it you can get the nearest supplier. It comes in 20kg sacks (costs about £17 but you will pay almost that again if it has to be delivered). I go at the beginning of winter to collect enough for the winter; order in what I need and take the trailer as the supplier is about 45 miles away.

They all get some, I add it to their feed as you would sugar beet, just give a small amount to those who don't need to gain weight and cut down on the short feed, much better for them all than cereals. Don't be put off by the look of it, mine all love it but introduce it gradually as you would any new feed. Are you near a Mole Valley Farmers/ Mole country store as they so 20kg sacks of chopped alfalfa (as a short feed) so you could mix that with the copra meal instead of short feed. Do check with your vet as he/she knows your horse but I am pretty sure the copra meal would be OK.

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brooke
New Member


29 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2014 :  08:13:25 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add brooke to your friends list Send brooke a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would give micronized linseed a try, have you suggested that as I know you feed that to your horses. And an unmollased sugerbeet.
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Misshana
Silver Member

England
449 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2014 :  08:28:09 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Misshana to your friends list Send Misshana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My friend's gelding has had EMS for a number of years. He's 15hh TB x 19 y.o.and weighs around 390 kg. He also is well exercised (only hacking but out most days on Vets advice) She feeds alfa based laminitis trust approved feeds, he is also on Metformin. Last year he was also found to have Cushings so he is now on half a Prescend daily as well as Metformin. (1 Prescend daily was too much for him, really moody and stopped eating) Wears bars across shoe to protect sole and has not been lame in last 2 years. He also has YeaSac and Formula for Feet. His weight is fairly steady and he looks fit rather than thin, if that makes sense.
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Mags
Silver Member

354 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2014 :  3:41:44 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mags to your friends list Send Mags a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would go for thunderbrook feeds for anything less than straightforward to feed, lots of info on their website and Debbie there is well worth talking to

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Pasha
Platinum Member


England
3622 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2014 :  2:32:45 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pasha to your friends list Send Pasha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The ECIR Yahoo Group do not recommend feeding Coolstanmce Corpa Meal to EMS horses as it's too high in fat.

Good fat, like Coconut Oil and Linseed is very beneficial for EMS horses to aid weight gain and condition, but shouldn't be fed in high quantities.

Has your friend had the horse tested for Cushings and Liver damage?

My boy has EMS, he then lost lots of weight and was diagnosed with liver damage, he then got Cushings.

I feed Thunderbrook Base Mix in the winter, but the best thing for weight gain for EMS horses is cold-pressed linseed oil. You can buy a 5 litre bottle for around £15 (online you can get it from Naturally Animals). Add this to the feed (glug in each feed) and providing there are no other underlying issues (i.e. Liver Damage) it should do the trick with just one bottle.

Excersise is key for managing EMS, but if the horse is struggling with condition it's probably best to scale it back to light work (i.e. walking for 30 mins).

Is he on Metformin? If he can't tolerate grass it maybe worth trying him on Metformin to see if that helps. There is also a 'supposed' glucose inhibitor made by Superfix called Lam Alert. I prefer Metformin as endorsed by my vet but have also fed this when just a bit worried.

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sab2
Platinum Member


8467 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2014 :  10:04:56 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sab2 to your friends list Send sab2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thankyou everybody for your help and suggestions i have passed this information on .
They have had him tested clear for cushings but he is insulin intolerant, think thats what she said,i forgot to ask about the liver he has in the last week put on a small amount of weight and he can now have more turnout time on his small paddock which will make him happier as hes normally out 24/7 and was box walking in the stable which of course wasn,t helping his weight. Things are looking more positive for him now, as they were starting to think that they may end up having to call it a day but hes still very grumpy but is gaining weight now.
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DianaSC
Bronze Member

Spain
184 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2014 :  10:18:35 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DianaSC to your friends list Send DianaSC a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's good news. Hope he continues to improve.
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badders
Bronze Member

England
169 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2014 :  1:22:38 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add badders to your friends list Send badders a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Sab2. Our arab gelding has EMS. Is fed haynet at night. Has a small feed with meds in morning of Hi Fi Good doer. He then gets a meal at night of Allan and Page fast fibre and lami mix, with some more hi fi. He is on NoMetSyn and is turned out with the girls on grass for 8 hrs a day. Feet get warm but no signs of lami in 3 years. He is on the lean side but not too much under. He is looking good. He isnt worked though but may be starting this year. Hope to get him out in hand this year too. Allan and page feeds are good. The Copra is good apparently and we use KLM oil at 30 mls a day.
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sab2
Platinum Member


8467 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2014 :  6:12:53 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sab2 to your friends list Send sab2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Badders, hope your ok, i shall pass this on.
DianaSC you sound like you have had a terrible time with your girl , i am so pleased that shes feeling better. They are giving 100 mls oil split into two feeds , if they add any more he leaves it but they will keep trying to get a bit more into him.
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Pasha
Platinum Member


England
3622 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2014 :  09:53:34 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pasha to your friends list Send Pasha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If he doesn't like the oil so much you can get micronised linseed which is very palatable, but you'd have to feed a couple of mugs per day. It's not expensive though and you can get big sacks from online suppliers like charnwood milling very easily.

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Judith S
Platinum Member


Wales
15686 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2014 :  7:30:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit Judith S's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Judith S to your friends list Send Judith S a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You don't say if he is on medication for the EMS, whilst diet will help, if the underlying condition is not being treated you will struggle to make progress. It is all well and good saying exercise is good for the EMS, but not if he can't take in enough fuel. We have found Primero Total to be great at putting on condition and it uses soya for energy.

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brockle
Bronze Member

United Kingdom
166 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2014 :  2:31:40 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add brockle to your friends list Send brockle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We had tried everything with our old arab mare now 26 and thanks to someone on here decided to try copra. It's as if a lightbulb has gone on inside her head! From the very first evening she tucked in with gusto, she won't normally eat anything much with something new being offered,now she scouts about for anything leftover in another bucket even after finishing her own large offering. She still looks v thin but with a bright eye, horrendous Cushings (first over 1000 for our vet), melanomas under tail but a wild canter to the next field last week. This is her last summer but thanks to the advice about copra as happy as can be. Can't imagine who first thought of using it for horses but glad they did.
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sab2
Platinum Member


8467 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2014 :  6:49:36 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sab2 to your friends list Send sab2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sad ending to this one as sadly he developed other issues and has been PTS this week, when the vet looked inside he had a tumour along with his other problems. He had a lovely life though never been abused and living with his mum throughout, didn,t expect her to outlive him though,my poor friend has lost 2 this year so all very upset.
RIP little man run free.
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Ari
Platinum Member

1657 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2014 :  9:36:34 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Ari to your friends list Send Ari a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So sorry for your friend who must be so upset but hope time will bring some comfort in knowing he had a lovely life with much love and the very best of care x
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Callisto
Platinum Member


6905 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2014 :  9:41:20 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Callisto to your friends list Send Callisto a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very sad news Sab2, RIP little man, and as Ari says, I hope time will bring some comfort.

Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
4964 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2014 :  08:26:27 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Goldenmane to your friends list Send Goldenmane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So sorry to read this, your friend could have done no more.

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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
4531 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2014 :  10:48:01 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add barbara.gregory to your friends list Send barbara.gregory a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So sorry to hear this; but, as you say, he had a good life which many horses never get and he died among friends and family.

RIP

Barbara

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Judith S
Platinum Member


Wales
15686 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2014 :  11:04:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit Judith S's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Judith S to your friends list Send Judith S a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So sorry to hear :(

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Pasch
Platinum Member


2277 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2014 :  12:48:14 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pasch to your friends list Send Pasch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am sorry about this,he had a good life that's the main thing xxx
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