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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jan 2014 : 6:56:50 PM
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Would appreciate your opinions please.My arab mare is a lively ride and can be spooky,but not too bad mostly.However she has days when she just seems to be a different horse, like yesterday we went out and she was like a loony, absolutely no idea why,started before we left the yard.She was jogging, flinging head around,going sideways,almost out of control she looked like a mad thing, upsetting my daughters pony too and almost mowing people over on the bridleway.Got off and she was no better,but didn't feel safe on her.Now and then we have days like this and then in between she is absolutely fine.Is this just something I have to accept about her,does anyone else's horses have these moments? She has back and teeth done regularly so don't think it is pain or discomfort.Can anyone suggest things that may calm her down?She also has days when she bombs round the field like mad for no obvious reason,its not just when ridden.She lives out 24/7 with 2 others and only has hay and a handful of low calorie chop.Wonder if I need to accept that she just isn't the horse for me,I don't have the confidence when she behaves like that,rather than enjoying the ride I am glad to get back in one piece and thats not what it should be about!She is excellent on the ground to handle etc,have done some parelli type work with her but doesn't seem to translate to the riding and don't know any instrcutors around here that use these methods,the one I had wanted to strap her down woth martingales etc which id on't think is the answer.Sorry for the long post, thanks for any advice.
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rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2014 : 7:01:57 PM
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How old is she? Still a baby?
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Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2014 : 7:07:16 PM
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| No she is 12!And my daughters 5 yr old is far quieter and never behaves like that! |
Edited by - hazelcat74 on 12 Jan 2014 7:12:23 PM |
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rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2014 : 7:25:33 PM
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| Thanks Rosie.She was broken at 5 and I got her not long after.She is an anxious character,hates being in and weaves when stabled,but as she lives out she shouldnt be too full of it! Have had saddle problems in the past but she can be like this when led out in hand too and when ridden bareback which my daughter did when we didnt have a saddle(in arena not on roads). I think maybe its just her, she needs someone who can give her a lot of work probably.But then she can be not ridden for weeks and be fab when you get on, she's unpredictable which is what I don't like. |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2014 : 7:35:54 PM
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As she's a mare,I would think hormones….some react worse than others (exactly like us!).maybe I would check that with your vet.
They also have their days-Armos who's usually a star was jumping small ditches he should have just walked on and bucking when touching ground from the jump,jogging and feeling like a bomb ready to explode on one of our last hacks.
They also read us better than we think,could it be that you are nervous getting on her,she will feel that and act nervous and scared herself since without realising you would be sending her alarm bells.If that's the case she would be good with a confident rider.
Magnesium supplements are supposed to act as a calmer if there is a deficiency. |
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2014 : 7:44:41 PM
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| Yes Pasch I agree she does know now that I am not totally confident on her, but she acts like this with other riders too,had 2 sharers who couldn't manage her and even a girl who used to work on a race yard found her a handful.Tried calmers to no effect. I will speak to vet re hormones,thanks.As she's not always like this (thank goodness) that may be a possibility. |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2014 : 10:10:04 PM
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| You can get, I think its called " magnitude" from the American company (cant remember what its called). I use this for my mare it works and is only £18.99 for a 6 month supply. seems to take the edge off. |
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SuziQ
Gold Member
England
922 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2014 : 10:18:47 PM
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Its a funny time of year to be having time with hormones...shouldn't be worrying about them for another 6 weeks... (though if you suspect this then Agnus Castus is your friend and if only I had known about it before Ruby put my sister in a hedge!)
I note that you said you have fed calmers, have you ever just given her magnesium? Its something that I rediscovered last year, their being an awful lot more information about it now than the last time I used it.
This winter my friend complained that her PBA was scaring her with her unpredictable/hyper behaviour and I gave her some of Flos magnesium to try along with an article similar to this one
http://www.performanceequineusa.com/magnesium-themineralsuperhero.aspx
Difference is remarkable, Tilly is calmer than her usual self! I get mine from the e bay, progressive earth is the seller and very reasonable.
Good luck and I hope you find something that works |
Everyone in my life brings me happiness, some by arriving others by leaving. |
Edited by - SuziQ on 12 Jan 2014 10:20:54 PM |
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2014 : 10:57:07 PM
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| I tried a couple of calmers which weren't cheap! But not just magnesium,definitely worth a try thankyou,interesting article , I will order some |
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martha615
Gold Member
England
1053 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 3:46:56 PM
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That behaviour sounds very much like what my welshie used to be like when I'd ride her out straight from the field in the winter. It was like riding the ball inside a pinball machine!
I began doing Parelli ground work with her before getting on her and the problem disappeared. That was about 7 years ago. Within a very short time (less than 6 months) she was a lot more predictable and I felt a great deal safer with her. I did the ground work in the school, not on the road, but then I progressed to the road and other areas once I could control where she put her feet.
These days, I can ride her straight out without groundwork but I usually like to check how she's feeling before doing so. I'd look into Parelli. It's pretty magical for basic issues like safety.
I really understand how disturbing this kind of thing is, and how it is difficult to believe a new training method could make a difference, but it certainly did in my case! As for your mare being 12, that doesn't really matter at all. Horses are life long learners -- good luck!!! |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 4:34:02 PM
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I am echoing what Marthsa has just said. You don't have to be a parelli 'disciple', just use the thingss that help you. Backing her up would be a good way of reminding her that you are in charge.
I have an exitable horse, she has improved so much with these techniques, but also I have learned to control my fear. I don't always know what starts her off but I know that I can calm her by being calm and that comes from the confidence learned through groundwork.
Also good for you getting off . That is probably what you need to do when you get scared. This week I rode her without pre ride checking. That might not be groundwork, just a couple of times round the school under saddle. Little monkey went into top gear on a wet slipery field. When I stopped her at the top she was full of fun, wanting to buck so I got off. Two minutes later after backing her up and talking to her I was able to ride back on a calm horse. On that occassion I just think she was really enjoying herself! |
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Ari
Platinum Member
1657 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 6:18:59 PM
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Can't agree more the value of ground work and I am a recent convert, never too old to learn and that was me not the horse.
Ari has always been gentle and obedient in hand but I had trouble with spooking and his lack of confidence (in me) when ridden. Different problem to yours but I was at my wits end, getting scared and very fed up so know how you feel. Building trust with groundwork by setting up challenges and overcoming scary things together helped him trust me all was well if I said it was out hacking. He's 10 now and goes daft on spring grass so then it's back to the groundwork games for a week or two.
I have seen excellent results with a strong stroppy part warmblood that was a nightmare in hand and nasty in the stable but groundwork techniques like Martha says controlling where she put her feet have established her long suffering owner as leader and she behaves so much better.
I did a lot of research and took what I thought would suit our issue best, give it a go it will work.
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Edited by - Ari on 13 Jan 2014 6:20:27 PM |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 7:43:56 PM
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| Groundwork surely helps in case of a horse that is always difficult to handle or has confidence/leadership issues,Hazelcat's mare,however,seems to be a nightmare only on certain days and absolutely fine on others,that's why i would look into hormones imbalances or ovarian cysts just to rule that out. |
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2014 : 11:08:30 PM
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| I have done groundwork with her in the past, backing up, standing, turning etc and she is excellent, its just these odd times when its like a switch has flipped in her head.I will try doing some before going out,to see how she is behaving and get her paying attention.We don't have a school,but a small yard I can do it there.I will also try magnesium,can't hurt, and speak to vet too,as Pasch says she's not always like this which is why its a little unnerving, she's like a dual personality!My daughter took her out in a howling wind a few weeks ago, I was behind her on foot, and she was brilliant,she's not bothered by the wind which is strange for a spooky horse! Thanks everyone,Quarabian I think our horses may be related! Also I think she's just so clever that she just needs to keep her mind busy so she hasn't the chance to think about acting up!Some things to work on then,as I am quite fed up of her at the moment and could do with a quieter life so will see how we go! |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2014 : 12:11:49 PM
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Long post, worth persevering!
Well, it happened today!! So I'll talk you through what I did in case it helps. To be fair I haven't had Lyna out on a longer ride for a while. She was definately exited as I turned towards the hill where we can have a good canter (gallop more like) I tried to calm her but if I hold her even on a gentle contact she will leap about. So I let her go, she seems to enjoy this. Top gear, no bucking and then I pushed her on a few more strides when she started to slow.
So far so good. But she was starting to sweat and breathing fast when I wanted to walk along a track (she wanted to go again) tried talking to her and doing half halts very gently. Even remembered to soften my seat! But when we came to the next gate she was truly tizzed. She will always stand to be mounted but tried to go as soon as my seat lowered onto the saddle. After a few half rears and humping her back I tactfully dismounted again. I can do this safely because I have taught her to flex her neck to the side and I can dismount on that side without problems. She still tried to jog, side step and even push into me with her shoulder (Lyna usually has better manners) so I backed her up. flexed her head to the side (lateral yeilding) and asked her to yeild her shoulder away from me, all of this is done gently without being cross or hurried) It was the shoulder yeilding that had the best effect and she immediately slowed her breathing, First attempt to ride her I had to abhort again and repeat the process. This time she understood or was ready to settle.
She walked up the hill calmly but still like a hair trigger. I am sure if I had tightened my body or snatched at the reins she would have gone again.
So it its possible, but you might need to build up some language with her first. I love Lyna, she is a challenge, but I wish there was an off switch and I might be finding it. She isn't related to your girl hazelcat, she is an american paint. but she thinks she is all arab. |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2014 : 12:13:02 PM
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| Also, it helps if you have another quiter horse to ride so that you can relax sometimes lol. |
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Evie
Platinum Member
England
3513 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2014 : 12:30:00 PM
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Hi
I haven't posted on here for ages, but I saw this and felt I had to respond as my mare is behaving exactly the same at the moment and she is 21!!! It is definitely hormones as she is winking at the geldings she lives with and just generally acting like a complete idiot, mainly in the field. She is refusing to be caught even when the others have come in!!  She is actually better when riding, although in an awfully bad mood all the time. I think she has got worse with age!!
I hope you manage to sort your mare out. Mares eh? Who'd have them?!! |
Bristol |
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martha615
Gold Member
England
1053 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2014 : 6:32:34 PM
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Okay, maybe add this into the mix with your ground work: ask for just a little bit more as a kind of "test" before getting on. It can take place in any form. For eg. You might have her trotting in a circle around her while at the same time stroking her with a plastic bag tied to the end of a bamboo pole. Obviously, make sure she is ok with the plastic bag/bamboo stroking thing when she is at halt, then at walk, and only then at trot or canter (much of the time, horses are not afraid of stuff at halt or walk, but get really flighty at faster gaits). Then, take the plastic bag and have it "chase" her while she is trotting. If she is still totally mellow, you may decide to conclude she's in her "safe" mood. If she isn't then work with her until she is, and only then get on her. Here is a video of me playing this game with Esme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YLa8dQzmUE
Another thing is something called, "Hurry up and relax". Hurry up and relax is also about putting just a little more pressure on them and then interrupting their normal flight response until they calm down. It is hard to describe but I'll try. You don't mean to spook them, only to put enough pressure on them to get them to work through their emotions and conclude that you are to be trusted. I do this a lot with Esme if she spooks or snorts at something, or if she decides that jumping is altogether too exciting and that insane speeds are required. I move her by (or over) whatever is bothering her in both directions over and over again until she relaxes. I insist on interrupting whatever direction she is going so that she doesn't get up a head of steam (and a head of insanity). If she is really freaking out, I interrupt her flight response pretty darn quick and turn her the other direction abruptly, then the other direction until at last she has a nice, rhythmic pattern and a calmer outlook. Within a minute or so she is okay with whatever scared her, but that isn't actually the point. The point isn't desensitisation, but teaching the horse not to panic when they are afraid but to take direction instead. The idea is you are helping them cope with fear. The first time you do this it may take quite a long time before the horse calms down, but eventually it takes very little time, and after awhile they may never get out of first gear in terms of spooking. You never force them to stand still or punish them for being afraid. It is more a case of "okay, if you want to gallop off you can, but you need to turn now, oh and again, too, etc..." I do this only in a halter, not a bit. Once she is showing signs of relaxing, I let her rest.
I hope that is some small help.
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2014 : 10:19:35 PM
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Martha do you do the hurry up and relax when mounted? Obviously one problem is when you're out on the road you can't very well get off and start doing backing up etc, however I can do plenty at home,before deciding whether to go out.a couple of yrs ago I had them walking over tarps, under umberellas etc but I haven't done this kind of thing for quite a while with her.
Im glad other people also feel its sometimes a good thing to get off if you're not happy,I was brought up with the BHS attitiude of never get off,but just don't think this is always wise,I don't leap off the minute she gets a bit excited but I can feel when she has switched into panic/flight mode and forgets I am there and its not good! She is an amazingly quick learner so I hope if I do it right we will soon start getting improvement. Quarabian, the ride you describe sounds just like her, Im sure that if I thought in my head "she's going to shoot off" she would be away before you knew it! And yes I do have a much quieter horse to ride, my daughters 5 yr old 3/4 Arab, who is a totally sensible and reliable young lady and luckily doesn't usually take any notice of her flighty companion!
I will definitely try starting with groundwork again and see how we get on,unfortunatley can only do weekends as at work during the week and its too dark after work.Thankyou all for your advice  |
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martha615
Gold Member
England
1053 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2014 : 12:21:04 PM
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Hi Hazelcat,
Yes and no about the hurry up and relax when mounted. So, I definitely do it when I am riding but I try not to get caught in a situation in which I have to. Lots of times, I can tell what kind of mood my horses are in just from the groundwork and I wait until I have a better one before getting on. If on a hack the horse goes a little bonkers, I will sometimes feel safer on than off....it just depends.
A couple of weeks ago I ran into the hunt on my welsh D. I wasn't too sure whether I was safer on or off and I did get off in the end. However, I was riding in a bridle with normal length reins so didn't have nearly the control I'd have had if I'd had a longer rope. It went ok. I wasn't sure I did the right thing in any case, but I was just trying to stay alive there while all the chaos was going on! |
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2014 : 12:03:13 PM
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| Thanks Martha. weather permitting I will start some groundwork this weekend. she was in such a mood last night, think she's needing some 1 to 1 to remind her who is in charge! |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2014 : 09:49:48 AM
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| Oh sh*t its raining. Bang goes your groundwork session and my hill ride hazelcat. |
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Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2014 : 11:57:44 AM
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| Aren't they all a bit bonkers in January? Just come back from much too exciting a ride with Kes on here where Spider pulled, jogged, complained about the wind, trotted sideways etc. Hes 15 this year and really should know better, but hes never boring.. Really hoping that when Marbahran (aka Marvin) is ready to hack he is LESS exciting, sometimes it would be nice to admire the view rather than have that 'strapped to a rocket' feeling... |
   
West Sussex |
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2014 : 1:48:25 PM
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We only have light rain here Quarabian so hoping to get something done soon!Bloomin weather!Arachnid Our 5 nearly 6 yr old has never been at all bonkers but my mare can be unpredictable all yr round!Farrier was 2 hours late yesterday so took the opportunity to start groundwork again. Basic backing up,standing,turning to start, perfect. So then following Martha's suggestion, Asda bag tied to a stick.No problem, after a couple of snorts and steps back she let me stroke along her neck and back and under belly, she wasn't too keen but stood still and took it,I did a little at a time and as she stood still then I would remove the bag and praise her and then do a little more.Then progressed to flapping it around,she soon learnt that it would follow her if she moved off but as soon as she stood I stopped the flapping.Within a few mins, as soon as I waved the bag she would stop and look at it and not move away.I was amazed at how quickly she learnt this,I could see she was really thinking about it rather than going into panic. She was great,so going to do little and often with various weird objects,I think she enjoyed it as when I let her out after she followed me all over as I tried to see to the others.Not going to think of going out for a while,just keep building our bond again and then take it from there. any suggestions for other trustbuilding exercises gladly received!
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2014 : 3:58:52 PM
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That sounds brilliant. Well done both of you.
My main tip is if something is scary get them to follow it. It is less scary when moving away. Works with sheep, plastic, wheelbarrows quad bikes etc and even traffic if you can get someone to co operate. If you meet something stationary and scary that you cannot move let her walk up to it until just before it is too scary and then ask her to back up a fwe strides. Repeat this many times until she is breathing slowly and more curious about getting closer. Not rushing is the secret. |
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Over excitable behaviour
