| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
rosie
Platinum Member
 England
3662 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 12:30:09 PM
|
About 5 weeks ago, Chelle took Bertie and Rosie out showjumping.
Bertie went in 3 classes, and won 2 and was 2nd in the other.
That night we noticed 2 small lumps on his back in the saddle area, and when you touched them he was VERY sore.
We then arranged for a saddler and physiotherapist to check him out.
The saddler said that his saddle no longer fitted and it was probably our old saddle causing the problem. A new saddle was purchased so hopefully problem sorted?
She said that her dilemma was that Bertie is short backed and needs a small saddle and Chelle is sooo tall and needs a larger saddle but she found a saddle to fit Bertie.
She also advised us to use a girth with non-elastic ends as her theory is that the elastic has the 'give and take' movement which causes the saddle to move, and to use a polypad as Bertie may be thin-skinned?
I've always used girths with elastic ends and also thin numnahs with the belief that if a saddle fits then a thin numnah is adequate?
So we now have a new saddle, girth, and numnah.
Physiotherapist came out and gave Bertie a treatment which he did need as he was sore.
We were then entered to go to cricklands, so the phsyio came out a week later to check on Bertie and whether he was OK to ride again or need longer off. After another check, she said he didn't need any treatment and in her opinion he was fit for 3 days of competition.
My gut feeling, was that him and Michelle maybe needed longer to make sure for certain he was OK and they were both happy with the new saddle so we didn't go.
Instead Chelle hacked bertie out then on Sunday took him x-country.Anyone that has seen my videos on fb will have seen that he jumped fabulously, with tail up and ears *****ed.
That evening, I noticed Bertie's back is sore again 
Poor Bertie.
I've had a chat with the vet and we've put him on bute to help with the pain and inflammation, and in his opinion he thinks we still have a saddle issue? Bertie is happy being ridden and jumped but something is still not right.
We have the phsyio coming out again on Friday evening.
If anyone has any suggestions or advise then I'd really appreciate it as at the moment I feel I am banging my head against a brick wall and not getting anywhere.
I seem to be taking so much advise but not getting anywhere:
I have a vet who thinks its a saddle problem.
A saddler who thinks that Chelle is now too tall for Bertie, and needs a bigger horse.
And a phsyio who makes Bertie better then he goes sore again.
|
     
Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
|
Report to moderator
|
|
|
kate maciver
Bronze Member
Scotland
66 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 1:10:12 PM
|
My humble opinion would be that you need a new saddler. Sounds like your saddler talks piffle and is just interested in making a sale.
 |
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 1:10:48 PM
|
It does sound like there is a bit of a problem saddling for the horse and rider combination as it seems that she is being made to sit at the back of the saddle causing her weight to be concentrated rather than spread. Whether the horse can take a larger saddle is probably open to debate as some saddlers are inflexible in length of saddle, whereas a longer bar could balance the rider and spread the load more efficiently. Obviously you can only take the advice from the person who sees the horse, but they are not necessarily right - can you get a second opinion from another saddler?
eta I would in future ask for a trial period so the horse can be ridden doing everything you want it to do, especially as this current saddle was fitted to a horse with a sore back.
With regard to the elastic girth causing the saddle to move and rub, that sounds like a poor excuse for the saddle not fitting and the shoulder causing side-to-side movement. |
    |
Edited by - Judith S on 18 Apr 2013 1:59:45 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 1:29:16 PM
|
| I would also question the saddler, I have seen pictures of your daughter on Bertie she is not that big, men ride small Arabs in showing classes most men would need at least a 17" saddle so I would think most Arabs can take a 17" saddle, I had a nightmare with saddles I have a great fitter now and I bought one of her own make saddles I dont know what I would have done without her. |
 |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 1:32:50 PM
|
| I would say that its your saddle, try to think out side the box and try something you may not have thought of, there are lots of saddles out there that would fit your horse and rider. In the mean time I would contact your saddle fitter and as the saddle that was supposed to fit dose not, ask for your money back. |
   |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
AnnaMaisy25
Gold Member
England
794 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 2:54:16 PM
|
Would it not be possible to have your panels rolled so the weight is evenly distributed, but the horse is still taking a saddle that fits him?
Freya wears a 15" Ideal working hunter, but even that is on the large side, but the seat had rolled panels to make it a 16" seat for the rider... I've actually just bought her a new saddle, but she may have to grow in to it.
I have nightmare saddle problems with Freya, she's long but short, and her ribs are close together, but high withered... I've changed saddle fitters three times in the last year! But I think I have it sorted now. Oh, and I was told that elastic girths can be more forgiving for ponies and horses with a slightly difficult fit or sore back??
Where are you based? Mine is from Hertfordshire but travels to us in Bedfordshire, and also to Norfolk and Cambs... And she doesn't charge extortionate prices and has a Master Saddler for 22 years now. I can't recommend her enough!
Anna x
|
 
Splash&Freya. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
MirandaToo
Silver Member
England
381 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 6:41:20 PM
|
I'm trying to write this in bit of a rush so hoping it makes sense!
I've had all sorts of saddle problems which I won't bore you with! I recently went (out of desperation!!) to a clinic held by a lovely lady called Lavinia Mitchell who makes and fits saddles, my horse physio and a human physio. Long story short, it was incredibly informative and covered soooo many areas of horse anatomy and how the saddle fits.
The thing that really made me look at my saddle is the fact that LM doesn't 'fit' saddles to the horses current shape, but fits slightly wider and then shims the saddle, allowing the horse to muscle up underneath... I'm explaining this really badly, but there is loads of info on her site.
I was really sceptical about this approach as, like you, I thought if a saddle fitted I should only use a thin numnah under - however, having listened to her and seen the templates of different horses she has worked with, I have to say I'm converted..... sure that it's not to everyone's way of doing things, but it makes sense to me and seems to be working for my pony who has almost exactly the same probs as you are describing!
By the way, having seen vids, there is no way your daughter is too big for Bertie.... but if she is I'll happily take him off your hands!!!
Sorry, in a real rush, but if you do want more info PM me, or try emailing Lavinia who I'm sure will offer advice! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 6:52:45 PM
|
| Well thats 3 people on this thread that have had Lavinia fit saddles to them!!! |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
LIV
Gold Member
England
705 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 7:15:22 PM
|
After experiencing this exact same problem I would definitely say it's the saddle.
I had my saddle fitter back and she told me to girth him up differently but he still had huge swellings. I demanded someone else come out as she obviously couldn't see that the saddle just did not fit at all. The next visit with someone else fixed the problem as he required a totally different saddle (like I had originally been telling the previous woman) and I have never had a problem since.  |
     
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 7:20:02 PM
|
| LM used to fit Balance saddles and now does her own similar saddles. They are good in the way that they are properly wide enough for the horse, but the shimming in the pockets of the numnah can be a bit imprecise and I have seen a horse with a very sore back from one that had just been refitted. As with everything they suit some but not all and may well be worth considering. |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
FullCircle
Gold Member
Scotland
554 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 8:15:37 PM
|
| I went round and round with my old saddler and a short coupled pba. He could take 16.5 or 17 inch max, I needed a 17.5 inch. He also had those same sore lumps that you describe. I bought a reactor panel for my boy and it's been well worth the money! Lovely to ride in and he's so much more comfy! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 9:35:23 PM
|
| I have a Lavinia Mitchell saddle and can only say my horse has already replaced some muscle that previous saddles have damaged, I have been using this method for about 5 months so its worked for us. |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
flash arabs
New Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 12:10:59 PM
|
| Have a look at saddle company saddles adjustable by millimetres also do a longer flap on shorter saddles and you can have under synthetic top leather for a smart look but cheaper than full leather my horse is very sensitive but i swear by mine :-) good luck |
jessica strong |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
dawn
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
226 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 12:30:27 PM
|
i can vouch for prestige saddles every day of the week for arabs. i have both boys in them and just had saddler out this week as bought new prestige in january - he retemplated from original fitting and ralph has muscled up by 10mm which he said was brilliant as he is now able to use himself fully . they are built on a smaller pattern than most saddles so accomodate a shorter coupled wide ribbed arab but the seats accomodate a normal seat if that makes sense. joshua who is a very short coupled 14.3hh arab has a 16 inch prstige dressage saddle and i am a size 12 and 5.4 inch and it fits me perfectly. i have had many nightmares over the years with saddles/backs/saddlers who swear im being difficult because ive told them i dont agree with their fitting and got my money back on a made to measure saddle after my horse had to have 10 days treatment as it sat too long on him .....glad im sotred now but does sound like your saddler isnt doing a good job
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 7:59:45 PM
|
| Well the physio has been out to work on Bertie this evening. In her opinion his 'new saddle' that was fitted by a master saddler doesn't fit him - now to see if I can get my money back or a replacement saddle that does fit? |
Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
sarahjo
Silver Member
England
262 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 9:14:39 PM
|
With my previous horse I had the problem of saddle fitting as I am 5ft7 and my horse was 14'3hh. My saddler said ideally the horse would have 16.5" but I needed a 17" due to the length of my leg. In an ideal world a child would ride him 
Anyhow if I had the smaller saddle the weight distribution would happen in a different part of the saddle (ie right at the back instead of in the middle) thus causing more problems than a saddle that was slightly too long for the horse. So basically the best compromise to suit both of us. Saying that the first saddle I had off her she knew wasn't quite right and she did swap it with no worries. It's an excel event and def recommend them.
Hope you get it sorted.
Sarah
|
saraholdershaw@hotmail.com
www.arabianhalternatives.com
Nottingham |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
|
|
Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2013 : 1:47:34 PM
|
I am 5'7" and I ride my very shortcoupled 14.1hh pony in a 16.5" Bates VSD. I have a long upper leg, and the saddler didn't believe I would fit in it, and he couldn't take a bigger saddle. That was when he was 5, he is now rising 10 and still in same saddle (although have put different gullets in it as he grew). He has been ridden all day and got grade 1's at up to 40km endurance in it with no issues. The straighter cut gives me more leg loom and you can adjust the kneeroll position. It is very comfortable for me, and good for jumping (and for sitting into when he gets a bit carried away and starts bucking  ).
We went through a lot of different saddles before we found this one (to trial, not buy). One saddler who I asked to check it told me it was too long for his back, and that his back would be sore, but then had to take it back because he couldn't find any sore bits (and he tried very hard to find some...).
This is my 5' 7" niece riding in it with huge sheepskin seat saver
So it is possible, good luck with your search. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2013 : 3:04:59 PM
|
| Hi. Agree re your saddler talking piffle (love that word). Cinny is a short backed 14h and I am 5'6. We have a 17" FnE. The panels are very adjustable, and we use for endurance. Ours is a GP so we can also jump. |
    
Cinnabar Moth --------------- -----------CF Matilda ----Red House Gaia
Susi
https://www.facebook.com/CinnabarEndurance/ |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2013 : 4:07:18 PM
|
Love that pic Callisto. I would love to ride there.
As to saddles, the length of the saddle is not as important as how the weight is distributed. If it fits properly the weight should be spread over a wide area. Consider western saddles. However, I don't think Chelle is guilty of this, but some riders can sit on their seatbones quite hard!!! Bertis wouldn't go as well for her as he does if that were the case. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2013 : 6:14:10 PM
|
I've got a 16.5 inch saddle but the saddler has created a a bit more room in the seat for me! Maybe your saddler could do something similar? it is a straightish cut GP so I can jump in it.
Has your saddler suggested a conversion to flair? Its worth looking into for sensitive beasties. My GP is currently away being reflocked in 'sensitive boy flocking' and if this doesn't work I'll get it converted to flair.
I'm pretty sure this is why the Wow works for us so well (because otherwise it is rather too long and heavy) |
   
West Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2013 : 9:40:52 PM
|
| with reference to Flair, maybe that is why the Bates works for Buzz - it is the Cair system - not quite the same I know, but along the same lines. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2013 : 10:16:44 AM
|
Got the vet coming out today - Bertie is going to be injected with a steroid .
Now to the saddle dilemma - the saddler has now returned my calls, and has offered to either take the saddle back and walk away, or work with us and getting a saddle that fits.
Shes a lovely lady, BUT shes convinced that Michelle is too tall/big on Bertie and thats our problem, BUT my vet and physio say that is a load of rubbish and our problem is with the saddle. Do I give her the chance to sort the problem out?
My gut feeling is to walk away, and work with a saddler that the physio knows and they can work together with us.
I don't mind paying for a saddle that fits, but I think we really need to go down the route of a trial and buy. The first saddler, can do us a made to measure saddle but I don't want to go down that route if she can't guarantee that Bertie will be happy with it and she can't give me a guarantee that will be the case.
I've had problems with saddle fitting an Arab before, but NEVER to this level.
Whats your thoughts? Where do i go from here? |
Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
Edited by - rosie on 23 Apr 2013 1:00:08 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2013 : 10:36:41 AM
|
| Rosie have you tried David Sayer from Yarm , hes been working on a similar problem with my friend and her horse, hes very hard to get hold of sometimes but Sandra in the shop is great. Have you tried the wintec / Bates in 17in , i know they are not for every horse and still need fitting by saddler but the wintec are very light and can come with flock or cair. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2013 : 10:44:28 AM
|
| I would walk away, she has already said that the rider is too big for the horse so what is she going to change that will make a difference? She will just come back to the same conclusion further down the line if things are not working. |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
|
|
Topic |
|
Back/saddle dilemma
