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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
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Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 11:54:19 AM
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Agree a good thing - there is no defence for rollkur and to keep a horse stabled all the time and in isolation is cruelty, Totilas is a horse first and does dressage second and people seem to forget the fact he is a horse  |
    
Cinnabar Moth --------------- -----------CF Matilda ----Red House Gaia
Susi
https://www.facebook.com/CinnabarEndurance/ |
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Liz100
Silver Member
United Kingdom
370 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 12:18:10 PM
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I'm ashamed to admit I don't really know what Rolkur training is - I know what the end result is, but I don't know the methods to get there.
Why is it done? I assume it's all just for show as I can't see that anyone could argue there are any benefits to it? It reminds me of reading Black Beauty as a child and the injustice of Beauty and Ginger having the bearing rein tightened to get their heads up, just so the lady of the house could be fashionable. Surely animal welfare has improved since then? |
East Yorkshire |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 12:33:35 PM
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Peta have a hidden agenda - to put an end to the ownership of ALL animals by humans. I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.
Keren |
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Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 12:57:55 PM
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The trouble is they are attacking something that is cruelty, so I know there are organisations that want to end all horse riding - the yard owner at my original yard went this route, so Cinny and I departed.
Why can it not be more sensible welfare organisations that stick their head above the parapet on these issues, rather than the crackpot organisations? |
Cinnabar Moth --------------- -----------CF Matilda ----Red House Gaia
Susi
https://www.facebook.com/CinnabarEndurance/ |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 1:49:34 PM
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Thing is this kind of thing is wide spread many people that compete at high level treat there horses like this, its no point just charging one person, I have been on a livery yard where some horses only come out of there satble for one hour a day in the winter to be ridden around a school, in my view this is also cruel, then they wonder why it misbehaves, I think all horses should get turnout everyday and rollkur well that should be banned but its impossible to control who is to know what your doing with your own horse in your own yard.
Ok they can ban it at events but people will still do it at home behind closed doors, I don't know what the answer is to stop it but just think it will be very difficult to control what people do on there own property. |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 3:58:15 PM
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I brought a well known stallion several years ago, that had been kept in his stable with the top door shut for most of his live ( he was 11 at the time) and never had any contact with other horses only to cover them! to say he was a night mare was just the start, without me knowing, when I got him he had just been returned to the then owners as unmanageable.
He reared, tried to savage you, lunged at you, would self harmed, I remember tying him up in our yard ( he had just got me by the wrist and lifted me off the ground) thinking what have I done!!!
Well not one to be defeated, I decided he needed a job so with in 2 weeks had broken him in and was hacking him out on the Qantocks!! by then the lovely beautiful show horse had become a hat rack from the hard work and running the fence, I had brought a little cob mare and when she came in to season turned her out with him, well he charged at her like a mad thing, jumped on her and did the business, then she reached around and sniffed it him, and he wicked and he slowly slid of her. That was the first time he had had horse contact since he was a foal and I almost cried. After that he was the most lovely horse to ride, quite the handle, good with mares and foals and he also learned to be quick and move out the way of flying hoofs, after that first year he never got kicked and again looked like the show horse he was.
Apparently that is how most stallion owners keep there stallions!!! Shut away in a stable out of site, away from prying eyes. Not allowed to be the horses nature intended. |
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Edited by - glo on 23 Oct 2012 4:02:35 PM |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 4:38:04 PM
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| I have a firm policy here, whether raised myself or bought in, stallions are HORSES! And although not all can be turned out with others for various reasons they are all turned out either over the fence or in close plain sight of others, including mares, in season or not. If they cannot cope with this, then they become GELDINGS!!! |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 5:45:19 PM
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Glo thats a great story, lavinia told me you used to have a lovely stallion.
Pashon2001 that is a very good policy to have, some cope some don't and if they don't they are better off being gelded, not shut away like wild beasts. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 6:15:21 PM
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My 2 stallions (3 when I had them) have always lived like horses. Right now they are together with a double electric fence between them, as they have spent all their lives together since they were foaled. If it wasn't for the fact that one of the main riding routes on the farm goes past their paddock (and they get excited when mares go by), they would live happily together in the same field. One YO even said they were less trouble than geldings!
Stallions are HORSES. Just horses with hormones. Kept sensibly, they are as sane and loving as any other horse. I can't abide people who treat them like psychopathic rapists and lock them up all the time. Anyone would go mental kept in solitary confinement without any stimuli 
Keren |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 7:31:05 PM
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| Most quarter horse stallions do something else besides serve mares. Thank goodness. The father of two of mine was out hunting regularly in Leicestershire and a perfect gentleman. |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 8:23:38 PM
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| Glo, Pashon, Minhe....agree wholeheartedly. If people have to keep their stallions, indeed any horse in all the time they shouldn't blooming own them. |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 9:38:33 PM
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Gio what a beautiful story that stallion was lucky to find you!
Unfortunately most stallions I have known were either kept inside except for their hour's work in the school,or in a small high fenced paddock.They were all aggressive,a problem to handle,some downright dangerous.And who could blame them!That is no life for a horse.
On the other hand,stallions kept with a mare or with their small"family"are always friendly and happy.Anybody who can't keep them with a minimum of contact with other horses and decent turn out should not be allowed to keep a stallion.Or any horse,as especially in yards and schools located in towns where there is little space and no paddocks,all horses are confined in stables and get out only to be ridden in a school,can't have a buck in a field,groom with a friend,eat grass.They just spend their life carrying around novice riders until they are too old.
Totilas owners have paid so much for him that they don't want to risk even the slightest injury,he's an investment for them,not a living being....
Peta might be extreme(although really,there is way more extreme than Peta!)but if they can highlight cruel treatment and set better conditions for keeping horses they are welcome.Their "hidden agenda"will probably remain hidden in our lifetime,but it would be good if horses' welfare would not only mean food and shelter but also a life as close to their natural one as possible. |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 12:12:17 AM
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for those who don't know what rollkur is, here is the explanation that appears on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollkur
I personally think it is vile.
As for keeping horses inside for long periods of time - I stress if my horses get less than 7 hours turnout in the winter (unless weather conditions prohibit, and even then I would rather they got a couple of hours out in foul conditions before coming back in to their cosy stables), they are out 24/7 in the summer. They are not designed physically or mentally to be confined.
Nevertheless I have strong reservations about PETA as an organisation. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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borleybird
Bronze Member
184 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 09:59:01 AM
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Thank for the link Linda, very useful. Brought back memories of watching wannabe show jumpers as a kid, schooling in draw reins. Ponies were over bent with no impulsion. Everyone was copying a well known show jumper on the yard as this was how he schooled his horses. Its such a shame that this practice seems to get results at such a high level of dressage.
As for the daily turnout, I'm gonna say something really controversial... racehorses in training do not get turned out regularly. They are however normally on a busy yard with a set routine and a couple of hours exercise a day so they have lots of entertainment. I know that some have stable vices and this regime does not suit every horse however there are thousands in training that thrive on it. I guess with everything connected to animals, there is always some scope for abuse and lots of Greg areas in between.
I am by no means saying that isolating a horse with no equine and limited human contact is right and I completely agree that in nearly all situations, keeping a horse as naturally as possible is the right thing especially when breeding. |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 11:31:42 AM
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As with race horses being in all the time, I think you will find the some of the very largest racing stables are turning there horses out, I know one that is local to us turns his horses out each day and they win a lot of the big races that a lot of us watch each year!!!
So times are changing. |
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borleybird
Bronze Member
184 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 8:53:26 PM
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| Glo, I'm very impressed with that and stand corrected. Must admit I've been out of touch with racing for a few years and When I think about it, I have seen interviews with trainers before big NH races with the horses turned out in the back ground. |
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what do we think about this?
