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brack369
Gold Member
559 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 1:38:01 PM
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Worm testing seems to be all the rage at the moment but I'm not sure I totally understand the benefits of the test kits.
As I understand the worm counts do not pick up tapeworm or encysted redworm, therefore you still need to worm for tapeworm in Spring and Autumn and Encysted red worm in winter. This would mean that the only wormer you could avoid if your horse has a low worm count is your summer worming.
Last summer I used the test kits on my horses, one had a count of 200 and the other 300. So I still needed to buy wormers on top of the money I had spent on the worming kits!
My question is are there people out there that are benefiting from them? Are there test kits which pick up all worms including tapeworm and encysted redworm? or is my worming knowledge incorrect and you don't need to do tapeworm, ER annually?
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ali bali
Gold Member
Scotland
641 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 3:02:37 PM
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Hi, I think the value of worm counting will vary with the amount of control you have over your horses grazing.
I'm lucky that my 3 are in a 'closed' system where they are the only ones grazing it. That means I known there are no 'carrier' horses with high worm burdens dropping eggs on the grazing. Also I clear the field twice daily. This then allows me to monitor the horses worm burdens and worm only when necessary. My worm counts, use of wormers and the number of times I test have all reduced dramatically in the past 4 years. I am paranoid about worms as one of mine has an extreme allergic reaction to Equest and so I cant target the encysted red worms except by 5 day panacur which is less effective.
I worm once a year for tape worm and encysted red worm. To summarise my counts/wormer use for the last 2 years; Nov 10 worm encysted red worm & tape worm, March 11, July 11 and Jan 12 test all 100 or below, Jan 12 worm encysted red & tape, July 12 test all 'no eggs seen'. So per horse over the last 2 years thats 4 tests (4 x £6.75) and 2 doses of wormer (2 x £16) total £59, less than half the cost of routinely treating.
It did take me two years of more frequent worming along with tests and dilligent poo picking to get to this stage and if new horses with unknown worm burdens are frequently introduced onto your grazing then you are unlikely to be able to get your counts as reliably low.
I intend my next worm count to be at the start of winter and results will decide if I worm for encysted red worm. I'll probably err on the side of caution and worm unless all are 'no eggs seen'. Ill worm for tape worm regardless as no 'poo' test can check for these, you need a blood test from your vet.
I just enjoy not having to wrestle a wormer into very naughty pony on a regular basis!! 
HTH Alison |
Edited by - ali bali on 12 Jul 2012 3:11:24 PM |
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sparky
Junior Member
41 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 3:22:10 PM
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I have just spoken to my vet about this. The advice I recieved was that the aim with testing for worm burden is that you can at the most basic level end up testing twice a year, (march/april and July/August) and then only worm once a year in December with a wormer that deals with any hibernating red worm and tapeworm. This would obviously represent a huge saving economically, but also in terms of resistance to wormers and to the environment. (Not to mention the stress to us of worming!)
I had 2 horses go down with colic on the same evening hence the tests, turned out to have nothing to do with it. Vet also said that you worm the horse that has a high count only. So different to the old ways!
Monique
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 3:34:41 PM
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I'm similar to ali bali, it took me over a year of testing and keeping <50epg results. We poo-pick daily and we have the same 3 horses, we never have different horses on our grazing and we know the WC's of all 3 horses, as such I only worm once a year for encysted and tapeworm.
I test 4 times a year and as long as the results are all <50epg and I have no reason to be suspicious, ie a horse has grazed our grazing with a high count, this is what I stick too. It works out a lot cheaper and is better all round for the horse and for parasite control in general (as there is no more investment into wormer technology and resistance is on the rise). |
    
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 3:50:42 PM
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I do egg tests. I always worm for tapeworm 2x year and one of those will include for encysted redworm. So I might use pramox for one and then a standard general/tapeworm one for the other. Inbetween, ie july and Dec/Jan I will do tests. I will then worm accordingly.
As it has been in past that my 24yo didnt need doing but my then 2yo did with 350epg. Both had previously been wormed with same wormer, on same day, both in same field. Got results back just last week and this time neither need to be done. So its only cost me £13 for the tests this time round. Was the same in Jan this year. So I have saved money.
I understand what you mean that it might cost more if you have to do tests and then worm but by doing the test you are potentially avoiding putting chemicals into your horse that is unnecessary and helping prevent resistance.
Ive been told anything that is 400epg should be wormed but I go with 300epg just to be on safe side. |
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 5:09:42 PM
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| I started using worm counts a year ago, when we bought Rosie her owners had her on one of those programmes the vet gives you where she was having something different about every 6 weeks, which they advised me to carry on.She tested at 1250epg so clearly the vets ptogramme wasn't doing a very good job! My other 2 girls I was pleasantly surprised came back <50epg, at this time we were on a yard where you had to poo pick. All Rosie's counts since have been clear after a Pramox when she first arrived.I think it is good to know what is going on inside your horse and not to worm unless necessary, I do for tapeworm and encysted reds in Dec/Jan with Pramox and then just tape in September,may just do this once a year too in future. it is better for the horses not to be wormed unless they need it and to help prevent resistance being built up. I always thought they should all be wormed every so many weeks but haven't wormed since Jan for encysted, clear counts for all 3 in April and next one is due next week. Now we rent our own field they should stay clear I hope, I was very surprised that the first count came back <50 so worming wasn't necessary at that time. |
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brack369
Gold Member
559 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 7:10:13 PM
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Thanks everyone, it's clearly beneficial for a lot of you. Hope you don't mind me banging on about it but my horses are managed exactly the same as last year. Own paddock no other horses, poo picked weekly and used the equest / pramox annual pack. Their worm count was 200 and 300 is it likely that this could've reduced this year?
Are there different tests for worms and eggs? Which should you use and when?
Do you have any recommendations where to have tests done ?
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zebedeedeb
Gold Member
England
516 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 7:54:12 PM
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| where do you get your kits from,, the last one i bought cost me £13,, thanks |
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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 8:29:45 PM
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think itl depend on how effective your worming programme is at the moment whether itl reduce. We had a yearling on our yard that had been wormed with an ivermectin based wormer as a weanling and then again so many weeks later. the following spring we used pramox and oaft! there were hell of alot of adult roundworm that came out. So that wormer obv wasnt very effective on him, or the worms where we are are resistant to that wormer.
I think this is also another benefit to doing egg counts..you know if the wormers you are using are doing the job!
Egg counts are generally quite broad based. They check for redworm (not the encysted, which is why you should always worm for them) and Parascaris equorum (which is like your ascarids) which is your 2 most common ones. The company I use are also doing pinworm tests. Tapeworm has to be a blood test.
Once my youngsters showed less that 50epg for the strongyles but the parascaris equorum said 'eggs seen'. they arent counted. So I wormed and Im glad i did. Quite alot came out, if Id left them they would of grown to huge things within 12 weeks. |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 8:36:54 PM
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| zebedeedeb - £13 is a bit steep, I pay half that but I can't really say who as it would be advertising. Check out some equestrian publications, especially the free variety, there's normally a few advertsing in them. Or a web search :) |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 8:37:47 PM
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I would say do the worm counts. Its something I had not done regularly unless a new horse came to the premises. I have taken part this year in a study run by scientists who are testing resistance to wormers.
On initial testing (remembering all my horses were wormed on a regular basis),
30 horses tested -
5 had zero count
15 had under 50
5 had under 200
3 had under 300
1 had 1318!!!!!!
and the last had over 3000!!!
Now all these horses are treated the same, have their own paddocks which are never grazed by other horses (other than their own foals) and are poo picked regularly.
The last horse in question is four years old and was born here, he has a beautiful coat and is in excellent condition. His mother had a zero count so did not have the same wormer resistance as him.
Interestingly I was asked to worm them with a particular brand (well known) and then send results two weeks later. There was barely a difference.
On the second worming with a different brand the results were dramatic with all 'carriers' being either clear or extremely low count. I know from this now that this boy and girl will have to be watched for their resistance in future.
I would say that you should test as you can NEVER be certain of a worm count, however well your horses are kept. |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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ali bali
Gold Member
Scotland
641 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 11:09:41 PM
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| Hi Brack369, just one thing to mention, red worm larvae can hatch from droppings within 2 days so the more frequently you can poo pick the better. If you only manage weekly then 5 days of larvae out of seven could potentially still be hatching onto your grazing. Al |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 11:54:24 PM
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We've got this same query at our yard; all wormed with Panacur Guard 5 days in mid-Feb, all with double-Strongid for Tape in April, then WC end of June. In the two sets of pairs in the home paddocks (poo picked daily) there was one of each pair with a medium worm count, of the 22 in the herd (not poo Picked) most had between <50 and 100, a few had medium counts and one had >1300 (who has now, on Veterinary advice been separated and had an injection) and the other 21 all had to have Equvalan on 8.7.12.
I would have wormed Chips anyway, being younger (he had a count of 600) but Roger is ALWAYS <50epg ie no eggs seen for the last 5 years(!) and I should have been able to miss him out until Tape/encysted wormer due in the autumn.
I'm not going to worm count Rog again if the yard insists on blanket worming regardless of result as, to my mind you should either blanket worm or do WCs and selectively worm.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
Edited by - Kharidian on 12 Jul 2012 11:57:13 PM |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2012 : 12:09:38 AM
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I'm the same as many on here, I worm count every 3 months and with a regulat zero count, a closed herd and poo picked twice daily I now only worm once a year. Bliss, I hated putting all those chemicals in my horses every few months when on livery. My vet does the count @ £8.50 per horse.
Fee
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2012 : 08:18:14 AM
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Fee, I was on one yard where YO (in her ignorance) wanted us to worm every six weeks. She would pick a brand up and didn't have a clue what she was buying!!
With all the comments on here. I too have closed grazing and Iam fanatical about poo picking. The weather at the moment is a perfect breeding ground for worms, warm and wet. I dread worming them as poor souls know whats coming and we get it everywhere. It is great now that I can have my own program lessening putting ghastly unnecessary chemicals in my horses!  |
     
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2012 : 08:30:00 AM
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| We worm count on advice from our vet (to prevent resistance build up, and because one of ours had a very bad reaction to a popular worker) the vet does the count and advises on the product, have only had to worm our oldies for tapeworm and encysted worms once a year for the past couple of years. So much better for the horses to be wormed as and when than every 6 weeks etc etc |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Worm Test Kits
