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Cinnypony
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1160 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2012 :  2:08:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cinnypony's Homepage Bookmark this topic Add Cinnypony to your friends list Send Cinnypony a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thought I would not title this thread inbreeding query as I don't want arguments about whether inbreeding is right or wrong.

However being that I am not pro-inbreeding (my personal opinion) I have a question.

If I want to breed my mare with a stallion and they have an an ancestor in common. It is a few generations back.

How many times does the potential foal need links back to said ancestor or what percentage of one ancestor should be a max to be considerd not inbreeding?

The remaining ancestors between the mare and stallion, are apart from this one ancestor, very varied.

Thanks


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Dot
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England
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Posted - 11 Jul 2012 :  2:27:31 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dot to your friends list Send Dot a Private Message  Reply with Quote
no links = no inbreeding

Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com

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Cinnypony
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Posted - 11 Jul 2012 :  4:17:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cinnypony's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Cinnypony to your friends list Send Cinnypony a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe I phrased my question badly, sorry

As at that definition Cinny (the mare in question)is already inbred as she has a couple of 2x back to some horses.

Maybe I should have said, how much genetic variety does a horse need so as not to get issues associated with inbreeding?


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Mrs Vlacq
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Wales
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Posted - 11 Jul 2012 :  4:17:41 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mrs Vlacq to your friends list Send Mrs Vlacq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your planned breeding sounds fine.
The closest we ever go is to produce a foal with a stallion as grandsire on both sides, but that is with very known horses (3rd generation homebreds) and with a mix of lines (and breeds) in the rest. It works too - some of our very best stock are this way around. I wouldn't call that inbreeding though...
Some people breed full siblings together, or put a stallion on his own daughters - we wouldn't do it.
There is an argument for 'hybrid vigour', but that can also result in a very mediocre mongrel type next generation....


- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq
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delly-b
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 11 Jul 2012 :  5:32:48 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add delly-b to your friends list Send delly-b a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I personally would consider parent to offspring either way round or even offspring to direct grand sire/dam too close, but that's me.

If I've worked it out correctly are you saying second cousins mating? I think it's close but very common in not only horses.



Adele

Batley, West Yorkshire
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barbara.gregory
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 11 Jul 2012 :  6:25:19 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add barbara.gregory to your friends list Send barbara.gregory a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You need to know the breeding; there are many very inbred horses who are stunning and produce well. As with every mating there is always a risk of doubling up on something you don't want! However, with close breeding you have a much better idea of what you are going to get than with a very mixed pedigree as there are so many different genes lurking behind the scenes that you take pot luck what you produce.

Just my thoughts. I don't mind close up breeding with the right horse.

Barbara

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littlearabians
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1323 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2012 :  6:42:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit littlearabians's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add littlearabians to your friends list Send littlearabians a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As Barbara says you NEED TO KNOW the horses in question, as you have to be prepared you can breed something special this way or something very bad... you cant control how the genetic codes end up, but knowing the faults of the horses your are doubling up on you have a better idea of what to look out for.

Line breeding is good if you know what you are doing and if you are prepared to pts worst case scenario outcome... my mare Kwiryna is line bred about as close as I would go calling it linebreeding
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/kwiryna3

is the stallion you double is closer I personally think its inbreeding not line breeding.

www.littlearabians.com
Classic Polish Arabians


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Cinnypony
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1160 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2012 :  9:45:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cinnypony's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Cinnypony to your friends list Send Cinnypony a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All the links to the to the one ancestor are between great-great grandparent and greatx4 grandparents. All the other ancestors are very varied.

The ancestor in question I've been told is the one that givess Cinny her amazing stride - at 14h she was out trotting a 16h thoroughbred - he was having to full on canter to keep up.

The stallion will stay on my list as having met him he was such a sweet gentle chap and gorgeous.

But the search will continue as I have a list of potentials to try and get to meet them all and cross off the ones that are unsuitable and then pick from the ones that are still on the list.


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littlearabians
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1323 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2012 :  10:46:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit littlearabians's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add littlearabians to your friends list Send littlearabians a Private Message  Reply with Quote
if its that far out I wouldnt think it will be a problem.

its the best way, always see them live if you can... these days with AI many people buy seemen from stallions they have only seen photoshopped pictures of.

www.littlearabians.com
Classic Polish Arabians


Worcester based

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Cinnypony
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1160 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2012 :  10:51:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cinnypony's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Cinnypony to your friends list Send Cinnypony a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Any potential stallion for Cinny will be met as wouldn't want to do anything to compromise the lovely temperament she has and you can't see temperament in a pic ;)


Cinnabar Moth --------------- -----------CF Matilda ----Red House Gaia

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Pashon2001
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3575 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2012 :  4:48:04 PM  Show Profile  Send Pashon2001 an AOL message Bookmark this reply Add Pashon2001 to your friends list Send Pashon2001 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with Barbara, it does depend on the horse.


www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/
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MinHe
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England
2927 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2012 :  8:48:11 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add MinHe to your friends list Send MinHe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Linebreeding and inbreeding are the same thing - no difference. Though the cynical say it's linebreeding if it works, and inbreeding if it doesn't!

Keren
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littlearabians
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1323 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2012 :  9:51:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit littlearabians's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add littlearabians to your friends list Send littlearabians a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wont agree on that Karen, as if you look at all horses they are somewhat INBRED then if you go back far enough... normally the correct term is mutal ancestors within 3 links in the pedigree is inbreeding NOT linebreeding.

www.littlearabians.com
Classic Polish Arabians


Worcester based

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