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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 1:15:22 PM
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Our 11.2hh has had a bad attack of lami, in spite of being on restricted grazing, have had the vet and she is on box rest and bute but after nearly 4 weeks not really showing any improvement. Vet says it can take time, to keep her on box rest until sound without the bute, we have struggled with lami over the 5 years we have owned her, she has had other episodes but usually been much better within a week or so, so very worried this time. Also our farrier says that he can't do any more for her,try to keep her as comfy as poss but that her feet wont' improve. but have been told that barefoot trimming may be able to help her, not wishing to ignite the farrier/barefoot debate but just wondered if anyone has experiance of this with laminitis? Vet wants to xray hooves but we already know she has some rotation.Not sure what the outcome is ging to be at the moment. 
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 1:43:18 PM
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There should be some signs of impovement if she is on box rest and bute for a month, she wontbe sound yet but she should be moving around the stable and wanting to go out by now.
My mare who laminitis was always on about 8 weeks box rest, but then again horses suffer more than small ponies do with it, small ponies usually have the hard sharp laminitis and can recover quite quickly unlike horses who are not really *designed* to have laminitis.
Has she got heartbars on? I would take advice of your farrier really he is the one that does your ponies feet and does know more about them than your vet, not saying the vet doesnt know anything they do but its the touchy feely hands on experience your farrier has with your horses feet that tells.
Laimitis is an awful awful illness and a very painful one. Her feet wont improve your farrier is right and please dontlet anyone tell you they will because they wont, they will only get worse after each episode of Laminitis.
I dont think anyone else can help unfortunely (obviously dont want the barefoot brigade to start argueing) I have seen other treatments dished out and to be honest they havent worked long term.
I would Xray and see what damage has been done to be honest.
I feel sorry for you I really do I had this with my mare for 11 years on and off and if it wasnt for my farrier and vet she wouldnt have lived that long with Laminitis.
I did use some herbal treatments on her to a good result my farrier said the quality of her horn had improved and the overall hoof in general and she went quite a few years without bute whilst on it and it was LaminitisProneSupplement by Global herbs, its not a cure but it did help her move around a lot better.
Good luck with her anyway.
Janet |
     
Sunny Cheshire |
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Mrs DJ
Gold Member
632 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 2:57:31 PM
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Hi Hazelcat74
Try the Metabolic Horse Group for advice. I found them so helpful after my mare had an acute bout of lammi 24hrs after being wormed (Pramox).
I had blood tests done that showed her to be possibly IR. It may have been the lammi that caused the insulin spike, but I treat her as IR, just in case.
They advised me on diet and management - eveyone there has loads of experience with metabolic issues. They can provide details of the safest feeds (lowest in sugar/starch), and what to supplement (and at what levels). Mine now gets one small handful a day of Hi Fi Lite, with Baileys Lo Cal, salt, Yea Sacc, magnesium oxide and Vit E. Touch wood she's doing very well.
Might be worth a try, if you haven't already.
Btb, the vet wanted me to shoe my mare during the lammi attack (she's been barefoot for years). My farrier told her he couldn't see the sense in banging nails into an already compromised and painful foot.
Really hope you can sort this, it's an awful thing to have to deal with. |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 7:06:18 PM
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| I was told that the best thing was to stand them on deep sand after laminitus. I certainly found it made a huge difference. People all have different views and I'm not saying who is right and wrong, I think it depends on the individual horse but the best success I have seen is with sole packs in the shoes. |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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jobo
Bronze Member
129 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 8:21:33 PM
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hi has she been tested for cushings syndrome? the two ponies that i have had with lami had cushings but also had liver damage. Lami is such a frustrating problem and with so many causes to it. my stallion developed lami within 12 hours of having an alergic reaction to feed that i had used before and all the others were having? he had to have bute,box rest sugested standing him in cold wet mud so when he could move happily enough i did and he had anti-bios aswell and within 5 days he was fine although he had lami in all 4 feet and was burning up,he has never had it before and been ok since and i hope never again. my old pony mare who i had 16yrs had a battle on and off for about 5 years and in the end because of the liver failure she wouldnt respond anymore so we had to say good bye,so i know how scary and upsetting it is. but it may be worth checking her liver count just to see? and check for cushings when she was also diagnosed with that she did respond to pergoloyd and the lami did settle for a while. hope you get some ansewers soon for her and you. wishing her all the best x
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 8:56:19 PM
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Thankyou all for your advice, farrier doesnt feel heartbars would help, he says the join has gone and can't be repaired.Seems he thinks we should just give up.That was when a lady who has barefoot trimmer said it might be worth trying her. She was tested for cushings 2 yrs ago and all came back normal, but now using another vet who wants to retest as apparently some tests are better than others, and wants to xray hooves too, all going to cost 500 plus, she's not insured as in her 20s and has long history of lami and I dont have loads of money. She is on feed as recommended by the laminitis trust,topspec Antilam, hay soaked for 24 hours, deep bed with rubber mats under, dont think theres a lot more I can do, even if she gets through this she will live fenced in a corner by herself and what quality of life is that, she cant go in with the other horses as grass far too rich- usedto be dairy farm so fields were fertilised. At a loss to know what to do with her, dont have the facilities at this yard for this and have looked to move yards recently for other reasons and there is just nothing nearby. Just feeling a bit hopeless at the moment. |
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Jumanji
Bronze Member
Scotland
173 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 9:11:43 PM
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Hi Hazel,
Got a pony with me here with a wealth of farrier/barefoot experience over 5 years to be precise.Best way to explain is for you to click onto my name and check out my previous posts from 2010 ,the story is under "steriods and laminitis.
Please do read.x |
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Mrs DJ
Gold Member
632 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 9:28:43 PM
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Catch 22 isn't it
You have to restrict movement to prevent further damage, but not moving around brings other problems.
How is she in herself?
Can you pinpoint anything that might be triggering the attacks? In my case it was definitely the wormer that tipped mine over the edge. Vaccinations? Or, I've read that it may be seasonal changes in horses with metabolic issues
I don't think the weather we're having is helping either.
I would talk to your vet about testing for Cushings again. Have her insulin levels been tested?
Forgot to add - supplementing magnesium oxide can be of great benefit. |
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Edited by - Mrs DJ on 22 Apr 2012 9:31:11 PM |
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 9:47:41 PM
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| Thanks jumanji, read the thread and some positive stories there, my vet and farrier both seem all doom and gloom but I have seen worse cases recover, its the fact there is little improvement after 4 weeks that is worrying. Fortunately she is quite happy in the stable, she is bright and alert in herself and I let her potter round the yard only for 5 mins whilst I muck out, but even on the bute she is slow and stiff looking, but when she gets on the grass she walks better. Apparently she is often laid down, but is on her feet when i arrive she must get up when she hears the car. I am sure it is the grass that has done it, it is shooting up here and very rich.She doesnt have any other symptoms of cushings ie curly coat/lots of drinking/unusual fat deposits and as it was 100% normal 2 years ago seems hopeful that it isn't, we knew when we bought her that she had had bad lami, she was rescued in a poor state by the lady we got her from,and most of the time we manage ok but even a few hours a day out was too much for her this time. Before this she had been fone for about 18 months. It is the ongoing manangement of her that is difficult too, hate to see her shut away on her own but there is nowhere else she can go, wich I could afford a small companion to share paddock with her. |
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 11:59:30 PM
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| Laminaze, a sand bed or yard so you can see when she starts to want to move she is feeling better, and frog supports (you might have to make some the right size, shape and thickness) so you can keep trimming little and often. Once she's happier then some turnout on old or fetilised grass, if you can find it. Good luck, |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 08:35:10 AM
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You can buy frog suports from Laminitis trust for about £20 (I think) and put them on yourself if you know how to do it or get your vet or farrier to do it.
You have to think of your ponu and the quality of life she has, I did with mine, she had a lovely life albeit on restricted grazing, I strip grazed her and only let her stay out from about July to September until the last flush of grass spurted through. She was virtually pain free until she got that last doe of Laminitis that was too much Sometimes barren fields cause Laminitis becuase the little bit of graas thatis coming through is so rich and full of sugar its unreal. Mr Pal had a pony with laminitis and he got it through a field with hardly any grass on whatsoever.
You do whatever you think is best for your pony and you will know when the time is to give up and call it a day, I thought i would never know but I did.
If she is calm and happy then I would give her a bit longer and I would really go off what your farrier says he knows best, if he cant do anything then I dont think anyone can.
To put your mind at rest I would have her Xrayed just to see.
Janet
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Sunny Cheshire |
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 09:52:18 AM
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hazelcat74 get yourself onto the website 'talkaboutlaminitis' and read everything on there!
It is now widely accepted that most Laminitis is not caused by what the eat 'today'!!! It is caused by metabolic changes caused by long-term obesity in earlier life or Cushings.
From what you've said I am afraid I would lay money on it that your pony either has EMS or Cushings. Having sadly experienced both myself, the best chance you can give them is to get them on medication and get those hormones under control! Sorry but a test 2years ago is irrelevant! They will test positive and negative within a few months of each other and i've had 3 negative tests before a positive before within 12 months! It is not an exact science.
I am afraid I am not a fan of 'alternatives' and diet alone management! I like my horses out on grass with their friends being horses and have successfully managed both Cushings and EMS with the help of my vet and Andy Durham at Liphook!
Are you anywhere near Liphook? They are offering FREE Blood Tests at the moment. If not, you can google it as sometimes feed companies like Dodson and Horrell offer vouchers for free testing. |
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 09:57:42 AM
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P.S. If you cannot afford the test, ask your vet to prescribe Prascend based on her age and recurrent Lami alone and see if it helps! You will see an improvement in DAYS! Even if she has EMS, rather than Cushings, Prascend will help with the Insulin response.
X-rays would be good if you have the money - but better spent of finding the cause and treating that I think!
Goos luck - please keep us posted xxx |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 10:45:06 AM
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What about a grazing muzzle? My friend has two little ponies who have worn them every summer for the last 8 years and have never had another bout of laminitis since she started using them. The summer used to be a nightmare for her as they weren't happy in and even on restricted grazing had bouts of laminitis.
My mare had laminitis a few years ago; entirely my fault! I thought she was in foal and was feeding her extra as her middle expanded. She had actually reabsorbed and when the spring rush of grass came thrrough she got laminitis in her front feet, one very slightly and the other very bad. The one foot healed up quickly but the other one didn't seem to improve whatever we did. In the end she was just on a bute a day, box rest with limited hay only and sne had a pad bandaged to her foot. She was on deep shavings over rubber mats. The weeks went by and no worse, no better. Then suddenly over the course of a week or so she went back to normal and has never had a problem since.
If she is fine in herself and seems happy don't give up.
Barbara |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 10:46:09 AM
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| Sorry, mouse problem, it double clicks! |
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Edited by - barbara.gregory on 23 Apr 2012 10:47:08 AM |
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LIV
Gold Member
England
705 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 1:05:36 PM
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It might be worth asking your vet if they can refer you to a remedial farrier. If your farrier doesn't seem to be interested in trying to help you then I would definitely push for this. It's not always that your farrier isn't good enough, just that they don't deal with that many cases or take an interest in that kind of work.
My gelding had laminitis so badly that I nearly lost him and I didn't feel either my vet at the time or farrier were doing anything as he just made no improvement, and started to get more and more uncomfortable. I had him referred to Rossdales and Simon Curtis took care of his feet there. He had some very radical 'rail shoes' put on which were the thing that really turned him around. When I got him there they told me he was a sinker and that I would probably lose him but he made a fantastic recovery and has been ridable for the last 4 years.
All horses respond differently to different treatment but if you're not happy then I would push for something to change!
Liv x |
     
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Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
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hazelcat74
Silver Member
472 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 11:36:07 PM
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Well seems we have turned a corner today, she is suddenly moving much better, took her to stretch her legs in the paddock and even had a few strides of trot and a squeal, I think she must have known what I was thinking!
Barbara have tried grazing muzzles but she is far too clever and gets them off in like 2 minutes, went through 3 in a week as she breaks them somehow so gave up with them.
Will speak to vet about other tests, my prevoius vets didnt inform me about different tests available or the possibility that results may not be reliable.
Our farrier is a remediaL farrier but also an old fashioned one who thinks every horse that ever steps foot on a road must wear shoes, even though my other 2 have never had shoes on in their life and never had a problem, so am going to try someone recommended by a friend who has a laminitic mare.
On the whole things looking much better today, thanks everyone. |
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Laminitis recovery time
