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Kes
Platinum Member
 England
1819 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Oct 2011 : 9:18:55 PM
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We have been given a nice piece of grazing for the Winter which our horses have just started. The problem is they won't get along and I was hoping for advice. My horse Kes is fine with all the other horses, he previously shared a field with other horses including his 16.3 Warmblood pal who has moved fields with us also. The other horse sharing the field is a 16 hand Friesian, the Friesian 'runs at' the Warmblood who jumps out of the field in what we think is fear. We have tried many ways to get them to share but it always fails in the end.
We currently have the field split in 2 with electric but we are waiting to put a round bale in for sharing so need them back together again. As this is quite a big field there are 2 other horses waiting to join us, a 14.2 Hackney/Cob and a 14.2 Hackney horse.
We tried hand grazing the Friesian in the field, no problems. Then we let them graze together, no problem. As soon as we leave them for an hour or so the Warmblood jumps out. The Friesian ran as a stallion for a good few years in Holland and had a herd of about 30 before he was imported. Kes isn't a trouble maker but is boss over his 16.3 pal and doesn't take grief from anyone, including the Friesian, but he's not a field bully either.
Has anyone got any advice or suggestions please on how we can proceed, we really don't want to give up as someone will lose nice Winter grazing, but I also appreciate you can't force horses to get along.
Thanks, Carole.
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Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
Edited by - Kes on 17 Oct 2011 9:20:53 PM
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2011 : 9:37:13 PM
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| I would keep them separate for some time as you have been doing so that they have time to see and smell each other and hopefully get to like or at least get used to each other,then try again.Horses do have instant likes and dislikes.Sometimes with time two horses who seemed to hate each other can become best of friends,sometimes they never will.Also the freisian having been a stallion doesn't help.I wouldn't leave hay only in one place as food is one of the main causes for fighting.The freisian could keep the warmblood away from it.However,the arrival of the other two horses could change things again. |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2011 : 9:45:05 PM
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It's a really difficult one isn't it. Unfortunately we have been trying for 3 weeks and no good outcome. We have been told we have to sort something now as the round bale needs to go in, possibly this weekend or next week, either way we have less than 7 days I would think.
The Friesian and the Warmblood are fine together outside the field, will share haynets, tie up next to each other, drive tandem, ride out together and are in stables next door to each other.
Neither horse is aggressive in nature, we never see nastiness in the field. The Friesian just runs at the Warmblood who jumps out of the field. On his last exit he broke the top section of a standard metal field gate. |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2011 : 9:51:51 PM
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Is it just the three of them at present?
To be honest, the larger the herd the easier it is as they go off in their little clics, but obviously if you've got one that panics and runs through fences there is the risk of him taking everyone else with him in total chaos.
And adding food to defend could only make things worse, but then if they are getting hungry it could be contributing to the tension.
I'd be tempted to add the bale and mix the three but make a couple of really big heaps as well so that if one stands guard, the others can still get plenty to eat. Then when they are settled and full add the new horses too and if possible leave them all together for a few days.
Good luck - it's horrible to be peeping through your hands and waiting for trouble |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2011 : 10:01:31 PM
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Yes just 3 at the moment, the owner of the Warmblood knows there are 2 others waiting to go in but wanted her own horse settled first, fair enough, I would want the same.
The YO wants to put the hay round in a metal feeder, this increases the distance to allow horses to feed although I am not a fan of them personally, it does help prevent hay wastage though. The hay isn't currently an issue as food, the grass is good still. Hay piles probably won't help as someone will say their horse is getting less as the others will have 24hr pickings, the outsider(s) will get twice daily.
We have one horse almost ready to go in now, a 14.2 Hackney/Cob. The worry is he will 'side' with the Friesian making the Warmblood feel more picked on. I wish horses could talk  |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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zebedeedeb
Gold Member
England
516 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2011 : 10:29:25 PM
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| i got a new horse on loan 12 wks ago and it took Tosca 8 weeks being side by side with electric fencing to accept the new girl, i now have 4 and they all live together, but it took 2 lots of them escaping and ending up together with new horse jumping into next field for them to sort it out,, and now the new girl is the boss,, which really surprised me , as it was Tosca who initiated all the nastiness, not pie the new comer,, it just takes as long as it takes for them to sort out their pecking order and rank,,,deb |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2011 : 10:46:42 PM
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It's so difficult to guess. I would never have thought my own little 375kg 14.2 would be field boss over 7 horses but he is!! Over 4/5 months from being at the bottom initially he fought his way to the top, brave little man he is!!
Thanks for all the advice given so far, I can see this isn't going to be sorted in 7 days. Guess we're sticking with the leccy for a while! |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2011 : 09:04:17 AM
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| 3 weeks isnt a long time,perhaps as was said keep separated for a while longer, also if loads of grass and still being fed, why is yard owner adamant that they need hay in field yet? i have 4 all of my own very dominent bossy mare who at first hated the other 3 she now although still dominent respects the other 3 and they all interact together nicely, they still have tussles now and again but they all know where they stand, it also depends if there is alot of horses coming and going as i have found that this can be most unsettling for them. alot of horses will ride out,stable next to each other and eat from nets next to each other, but in a field its their playground and it can be really dangerous, i hope you can sort, feel really sorry for the poor warmblood |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2011 : 09:24:30 AM
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| Electric fence and two round bales? It wouldn't work out any more expensive in the long run hay wise because it would last longer. then you could pick and choose who goes in which group so they all get on. |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2011 : 09:48:58 AM
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Two options really you either try the two new horses with the 3 and see how they get on, agree that larger herds do tend to split into groups so it might make the situation better as the Warmblood might pair off with one of the new ones, or you do what Zan suggested and split the field and buy two hay bales.
Arabi is out with 16 horses mares and gelding on about 30 acres, I was worried at first as he was cut late and is dominant, and the herd leader was the same dominant and cut late,but they are mates now and seem to always be together, we find the geldings take longer to settle and seem to be more trouble than the mares. |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2011 : 10:12:51 AM
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Thanks for your advice so far everyone, I knew I could trust ALiners
I think this is part of the problem that arises in livery yards sometimes, the comings and goings, new horse introductions, horses changing fields etc.
From the advice that has been put above I will try and comment and hopefully you will see how difficult this is for us and why we haven't tried certain things already.
It's the YM who wants hay out as we started feeding haylage last weekend, it's basically a tactic to prolong the haylage quantity which is fine by me.
I hadn't thought of the 2 hay round idea but that may work well. The question is though (and as we currently have the field split in 2), there is 1 horse ready to join the group now, a 14.2 Hackney x Cob, who do we put him with? Does he join Kes and the Warmblood or go in with the Friesian? My friend who owns the Warmblood suggests he go in with our 2 so he doesn't pal up with the Friesian, but then it may work the opposite way also??
The second horse to go in is a 14.2 Hackney horse, he's not going in for a few weeks yet as only arrived at the yard this weekend so still in quarantine. Also heard he's difficult to catch so he may start out just having turn out in the school, he's a stranger to all our horses though so that will again makes things interesting as herd order re-organises itself again.
Just to add, my friend started putting her Warmblood in this field weeks before I put Kes in there and it was a bit of a disaster, the 2 of them just screamed to each other constantly which made him jump out to be with Kes. Then once they had gone in together we found we couldn't leave her horse alone in there. If I bring Kes out I have to remove him as well, although she can bring her horse out and kes will be a bit noisy for a while but soon doesn't care. |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2011 : 11:45:08 AM
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| I think this is a really difficult time to mix new horses. I have just taken a summer loan horse back. She is creating havoc where there was harmony before. At the moment I am turning her out with only one or two out of the five in the herd. I think her initial aggression is fear based so hopefully lessening the threat will help her to integrate. Trouble is they don't settle to graze like they would in the summer and the field suffers from the running about. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2011 : 12:04:04 PM
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the fact is they are just like us really individual, some get along with everyone , some only like one friend, some are bossy, some are shy. I find you cant force the issue , but they can learn to get along if the area is big enough.
Venus is really funny , when we have a new horse here , she befiends them, keeping all other horses away from them , even her daughter, she gets possesive with the new friend and slightly bossy, its really funny to see, shaheena is the field boss but gets on with everyone until its time to come in , then they have no doubt about whos in charge. she will allow her son to be in front of her and thats it , everyone else stays back or gets a bite on the bottom !
the fact is no matter hwo many horses you have its a herd , and taking one away is splitting the herd , they just hate it. this can be over come by removing for short breaks, and lengthening the breaks little at a time. good luck |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2011 : 1:31:50 PM
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All horses are different Arabi will live out on his own with one other with loads of others and be fine, whereas my Sisters horse also a Warmblood can only really go out with more than one horse as she will get so attached if there is only one to the point of being dangerous and will also jump out if left alone, she has awful separation issues and also likes a busy big yard with lots going on or she stresses when she sees other horses leave.
I would keep the fields in two and try them in different herds and see how you go but maybe make sure the Warmblood is out with more than one horse. |
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Spangle
Bronze Member
210 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2011 : 3:50:18 PM
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I have found my horses have become very good friends with those they get ridden with- can both horses spend some time hacking with each other to help develop a bond and trust between them?
Just an idea |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2011 : 10:00:04 PM
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The 2 that we are having trouble with do loads together, but come field time it all goes wrong, or just not the way we want it. But yes, they are all different people and not everyone gets along.
Last night the electric fence got flattened and they were all found together this morning, the Warmblood didn't jump out, maybe it's progress :)
We have decided to keep the electric splitting them, seems the best course of action at present.
Thanks everyone :) |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2011 : 10:21:33 PM
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| Some horses just need time to adjust. I find if a new horse comes here, even if they haven't been out together, if they have seen the other horse and smelled it's poo, it can be easier to mix them after about a week. |
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TanyanChewy
Gold Member
England
1092 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 5:39:42 PM
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Hmm a difficult one, lots of good advice from others though.
Back in 1997 I loaned a lovely part-bred arab gelding called Rue (Rivermist Penruka) and he'd been in with our large herd of geldings all summer with no problems. It all seemingly changed when the weather took a turn for the worst. Rue, who had been out 24/7 naked up until this point, had a lovely new red fal-pro viking rug. Out of nowhere the herd leader at the time, Llanny,just took huge exception to him and over a few days we noticed that he was periodically chasing him around the fields. He was also regularly moving him on from the hay racks. Llanny wasn't doing this to anyone else, just Rue.
This went on for about a week. Please don't think I'm a meanie but we have generous acreage, hay fed on the field as well as racks and in addition to that Rue was an agile 8yr old whilst Llanny was a huge geriatric coloured cob so he wasn't at risk of being cornered and kicked etc it was just very odd and completely out of character for Llanny so we thought we'd keep an eye on it and see if he was just having an odd couple of days.
Once we'd established that Llanny wasn't going to let up we ended up putting them in the big cow barn that we have at the yard, one in each side sharing a hay rack in the middle, and basically just forced them to have each other as their only company for a week. Well, Llanny was straight away completely fine with him when they were in the barn together and after a week we put them back out and it was back to normal. Ever so odd. |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 8:57:53 PM
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LOL yes, I remember that Tanya! The trigger for Llanny was definitely when Rue was rugged and he was fine after being forced to have only Rue's company for a week.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 9:12:18 PM
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| Bit of an update, although not sure what will happen from here; the Friesian keeps trashing the electric fence as he's now rugged and feels invincible. Consequently they have abandoned the separation and all 3 are together now. Guess the Warmblood will either be in there or he won't be come morning :/ |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 10:13:12 PM
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 at the Friesian rugged thus feeling invincible...must be something with the breed though,Pasch was sharing a paddock with a Friesian mare with an electric fence to divide them,and everyday you would find it trashed and the two of them sharing hay... |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 10:17:38 PM
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yep, Friesians  fence goes up, fence comes down, fence goes up, fence comes down............ |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Pheebs
Gold Member
944 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 9:26:47 PM
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| The dynamics will all change again once the new horse goes in, I'd get that introduction over and done otherwise if you do settle them they'll instantly be unsettled again. Might as well get all the settling done at once |
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Can you make horses get along? Advice please.
