A thought occurred to me while reading a few threads.
So many of you mention that you're out riding (in whatever discipline), and at times your horse 'isn't listening to you', is pulling, snatching at the bit, not paying attention to you, bouncing about.... etc, whatever it is.
I know all horses do this at times, but the tone of some of the comments makes it sound to me like this behaviour is completely acceptable to some people.
Now, don't get me wrong, I know our horses have personalities and moods, and they will not behave in a robotic way. Who'd want them to? But, for me, when Jack is clearly not paying enough attention to me and he's not just 'there' at my fingertips - I don't feel I have enough control and it spoils my ride. I'm all for him having a look about and enjoying the scenery, but I want him to respond when I ask for something, not to have to pull his attention BACK to me....
Am I too much of a control freak? I know no-one wants to quash their horses personality, but are you happy when they're not really paying attention?
I'm not really 'happy' when Ozzy is not listening to me but it does really depend on the circumstances.
My dogs for instance are perfectly well behaved at home and will sit, stay, lay down, come here etc when asked. They are like this on a walk 90% of the time, BUT if a rabbit (or any small fury creature) jumps up in front of them they are off after it and it doesn't matter how much i call or shout they don't come back until they either catch it or it dives down a hole . Whilst i'm not really happy about this i accept that it's the way they are and it's in their nature to hunt / chase (They are lurchers by the way).
Ozzy is great most of the time when we are on a hack, but sometimes he is distracted by what other horses on our ride are doing and then he tries to copy them. We had one doing a the other day and he thought it would be a good idea to have a go as well . Not much fun for me... But on the plus side he followed my mare past a great big combine the other day without even looking at it because she just walked past it.
Whilst i would like him to listen to me all the time, i understand that he is still young (5) and that we will get times when he switches off a bit...
I think it depends what your boundaries are. For example with my kids, I am happy for them to wander in the park and on the beach so long as I can see them. They seem to know a natural cut off point. The same with behaviour, for me, you need boundaries so you don't have to say no all the time.
But I do think it can present a mindset challenge sometimes. I am getting Richard Maxwell out at the moment helping me with backing Eba. He sort of told me off in the school saying that when we are 'working' we need more of a teacher/pupil relatioinship as sometimes it is hard to tell where praise stops and general grooming and fussing start as I love to give her a big scratch. I find it hard sometimes not to rush straight in and give her a big hug and a fuss, but to be honest she doesn't seem to show any difference when I don't and actually when I do, she is more likely to play around a bit more.
The challenge is horsey minds think differently to ours and to me it is understanding what makes me feel better or good, isn't the same for them. She is better with straight forward consistency and when we aren't work just general down time. Oh and the odd treat!
I know I bang on about partnerships with horses but it really does show up what sort of a partnership you have when you see the behaviour that you describe in your title.
I believe that if a horse is distracted, it's nothing personal there is just something more interesting than the rider to focus on. The key is to become the most important focus to your horse.
I spend an awful lot of time on the ground with my mare, walking in hand, playing and just "being" with her. As soon as she spots me walking out of the house she leaves her buddies and comes to see me. I ALWAYS go and see her and say hello, even if I wasn't meant to be heading in her direction. Reason being, she wanted to see me so why would I walk away from her.
When riding her I have a pocket of treats. This isn't for bribery, this is for motivation and praise. Sometimes she gets a treat, sometimes she gets a "good girl" and a rub. She loves praise, regardless of the form in which it is received. This keeps us connected.
I don't know about your Jack, but my mare is very tuned into my mood. If I am not really in the mood for riding, then I just don't bother because she doesn't enjoy my company and I wouldn't force it on her. Not for the sake of my enjoyment of riding.....
Thanks for your replies. I guess that's what I was asking really - 'what are your boundaries?' Which is a very individual thing.
Please keep thoughts coming, it's interesting
Lisa, it's interesting what you say about your mood when you ride - someone else has pointed out to me today that perhaps Jack is being a bit of a horror at the moment because of my mental state and mood and feelings.... (so as well as feeling guilty for not riding, for his health, I now feel guilty for bringing him down with my moods....)
I like what you say about partnerships though, it's what I'm aiming for. I think we're getting closer, but a bit more groundwork can't hurt
Hmm well I know that Shesky is bouncing around in hand and under saddle as he is full of the joys of spring at the moment My boundaries are plain and simple: do not bite me and I won't tell you off!
When riding he is allowed to jump when one of those bloomin bird scarers goes off and I accept he may be on his toes for a little bit afterwards, just in case something tries to grab us and we need to make a quick getaway BUT I will not accept running away like a coward - he has to take my instruction as to what direction to go in (and he does bless him). He is also not allowed to show off in front of golfers - passage and mini rodeos are not what they paid their green fees to see!
He he I am saying this in jest as he had 5 weeks off with a sore back, is feeling fantastico at the moment and we are both loving every minute of it! He will turn from my little toad into my little prince again soon enough
Against your question of what are my boundaries:- Don't drag me around, we walk nicely and calmly. If there is something you are interested in or scared by, we will stop and you can investigate. Sometimes a small jump can't be helped, but I am there trust me. Don't dive for your food. You will get it, but lunging at me will only make you wait. Don't stand on my feet, bite, kick. It is nice if you come and see me when I come to the field. If you come over you get a treat and a pat. If I have to come and get you, I am not going to get peeved, but you won't get a treat. Don't try to eat grass while the bridle is on. Don't stop and scratch when I ask you to do something in the school - I know you, it is your form of evasion. I accept that the first time (and probably the next three or four too) I ask you to do something you are going to wonder what the hell I am asking. I will try very hard to be patient and consistent in asking and we will get there in the end.
Think that is about it. Does that help with your thoughts? B
So agree with you Lisa, about riding when you dont feel quite right... my old boy Gizzy was generally a lovely responsive ride, it took a while for me to notice that when he wasnt his usual wonderful self, never really naughty though, it was if I had a bad day at work and was not myself too. Must remember this when Ali is backed and out and about....although somehow I dont think he will be quite like Gizzy!!! Cant wait though!
Hi Kelly, I think this is a really interesting thread.
I absolutely agree with you about wanting your horse to be listening to you all the time. My mare is mostly ridden on her own and so is very tuned in to me generally -she is ridden in a bosal and on a very light contact. I rode out with 4 other horses recently and Zelah just started jogging and jiggling, bucking if she went in front, careeering off if we went behind, tucking her head into her chest, and generally not listening to me at all. I hated it and although the other riders were sympathetic and said she would settle - I just wanted to go home.
I hate that feeling of losing that very light connection with your horse - I assume everybody thinks that -but maybe they don't. I think it's pretty subjective, if you ask most horse owners they would say they have a good relationship with their horse, but if you look at the list Becky Boodle has written (for instance)lots and lots of horse owners could not say their horses comply with those requirements . I think playing with horses at liberty enables you to get that partnership, where the horse is really looking for and responding to subtle cues. That's what I want when I ride my horse and I'd rather not ride than have my horse distracted/not listening/disinterested. I don't want a robot but I do want a safe, responsive, reliable ride.
This has turned out to be more interesting that I thought
To answer my own question, here are my boundaries (slightly plagiarised from Becky Boodles, to give me a starting point)
I expect Jack to lead in hand calmly, walking next to me, not in front and not too close, stopping and turning when I do, on a loose rein. Or, if no distractions, on no rein at all. I do NOT accept that it's ok to piaffe, snort and blow down the lane, barging me all over, just because the mares in the next field are hooning around. Which he did last month.
Likewise, cows are not going to eat you - especially when they're on the other side of the wall - plus, you are bigger than them - grow a pair.....
I like him to come up to me in the field, and if I stop close enough (up to about 30m so far), and call him, he will do. After snatching a last few mouthfuls of grass.
I expect him to lower his head when I ask, from any of the three cues I've taught him (so can do it from a distance if necessary to get his energy down).
I expect him to pick up and hold any of the hooves I ask, regardless of what side of him I'm on.
I expect him to move over when I touch or point at a body part.
I expect him to wait until I've put his bucket of feed down and moved back, before he eats - and he doesn't get it if he's pulling faces.
I expect him to stand still, unrestrained, in the middle of his stable while I put his saddle on.
When riding, I expect him to stop when I ask him to, and to stay stopped without me having to hang onto his head. If something is scary or interesting, he can look, as long as I wasn't asking him to do something specific at the time (scary, I will make allowances for). We can go look at it for reassurance if it's safe to do so. If I say he can't shy or run in a certain direction, I don't want him to.
I do not accept that it's ok to rush home.
However, at this stage, I don't expect him to behave or stay behind calmly when a riding partner goes off in front too far or too fast. I stay with them to avoid that. Like Mazey, we normally ride alone, so riding in company is a slightly different matter.
I'm currently riding with a contact, because we've started schooling, and he needs a little help to understand about bend, direction, and that more leg doesn't necessarily equal go faster! But when he understands that, and is better with seat and leg aids, I plan to ride in a bosal too.
Then, I will expect that he carries himself, and doesn't change what he's doing since I last made a request, until I make another.
I see so many horses tied down with various tack, micro managed. It ties in with what Mazey is saying about a light connection - the opposite of a heavy hand.
I think I've just answered myself - I want to be able to ride and have a responsive horse through a light connection, not a heavy hand..... I don't want to feel that I have to micro-manage him.
I like reading everyone's thoughts, it's really interesting
I totally agree with Beckyboodle, pretty much sums up what I like from my horses. Although my approach to each of them may be slightly different because, having three, they are completely individual and how I go about asking them to do things is different with each horse.
It's sad for me to say but I have so much more of a connection with my mare than I do my gelding. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore him but our bond isn't as good. I guess it's like people, you have really good friends that are like soul mates and then there are friends. I often think about this and try my best to always improve on it but I think that his previous owners have imprinted on him that he does as he is told. I would like him to express himself more and ask questions.
Kelly, I am sure you will get there with Jack. He sounds like such a character and you can really build on that.
Well, Eba has obviously been reading this post or is having major pmt, or a strop as I haven't been able to do anything much with her this week due to work, as today she overstepped almost every boundary. All was good until the trimmer arrived. We had scarcely said hello when Eba bit her bum and then barged and just was generally disagreeable. This is so unlike her that I was somewhat taken aback.
i am now keeping my fingers crossed that by tomorrow she will have got it out of her system otherwise, we will have to go right back to basics. No idea what rattled her cage.
Oh well. Deep breath. Large glass of wine. Carry on. B
Naughty Eba! The mare in our field would NOT come in today, despite both geldings being happily brought in (this from the mare that has to be stabled when the boys go on a ride without her, or she'll jump the gate and follow them....) She was busy 'showing herself' to the horses in the next field. Both of which are fillies....
Anyway, I may have an explanation for Jack's horridness lately. Chiropractor has been for his check up, and says he's very sore all down his right side of his back, and behind the withers - thinks my saddle is pinching when it moulds and I need to pad it. I had no idea - I'm aware of the change in him, but put it down to spring grass/lack of work. And the girthyness, and saddle shy-ness, I put down to a change in girth (quickly swapped back but assumed it was remembered discomfort).
Feel so guilty - I try my best, but really got it wrong this time Poor Jack.
Sorry, went off on a tangent. Though it goes to show that when our horses change and overstep their boundaries, there's normally a very good reason.
Completely agree Kelly. Spider has had issues with opening and closing gates for about 2 years. He would spring back from the gate and not go through it straight to the extent where I just got off for each one. Cue new saddle and suddenly he is opening gates like a pro. I think the old saddle hurt his withers as I leaned forward to undo the gate, and I am only cross that I didnt think of this before. Now I am completely paranoid about saddle pain. I think I will drive saddler to an early grave.. Saddler says that you should only feel guilty if you KNOW it hurts and you do nothing, so you are off the hook Kelly!
OMG - I never even tied our current gate problems to it! I thought it was high jinks and the gate having dropped on it's hinges - but far more likely to be the saddle - wow.
If I didnt feed Ali until he stops face pulling he'd starve!!! While i would agree with most of the expectations, also have to remember they are animals ....with instincts! Wonder what they would say if asked the same question????
I assume it was the first day of her season or she had a small blockage or something that cleared. She is still cautious of her lower belly area but is much better and best of all is back to being a total sweetie and listening.
We had a great little session in the school this morning, which is good as we have a saddle fitting in the morning!!! Can't believe after having her for three years we are getting to the ridden stage. I am so excited, and now that she is back listening, it is so much better.
It seems a long time coming, but the boundaries and limits have been set over the three years, but lots of chill time, mooching around, walks round the farm tracks and little schooling sessions of increasing sophistication, and the comments we now get are so nice to hear in terms of how mannerly she is and what a sweetie - and pretty too!
Horse 'not listening', pulling, bouncing....
Posted - 27 May 2010 : 3:28:08 PM
. Whilst i'm not really happy about this i accept that it's the way they are and it's in their nature to hunt / chase (They are lurchers by the way).
the other day and he thought it would be a good idea to have a go as well 
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