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alix liddle
Silver Member
 England
421 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 7:42:06 PM
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Does anyone know what the law is about this. Lately when hacking I have had loads of lovely canters ruined by convoys of people driving their vehicles down bridleways that do not lead to any houses or farms and it is really annoying.
Thanks
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kimzi
Gold Member
865 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 7:55:07 PM
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| Hi Alix if it is a bridleway and not a byway you can contact your local council and ask them to inspect with the view to putting bollards at either end,but if there are any field entrances on the bridleway it may be classed as a green lane and owners of those fields may have have legal permission to access them with vehicles. |
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Smiler
Gold Member
England
1217 Posts |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 10:05:45 PM
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| You can get motorbikes on a bridleway but not 4x4s |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 10:47:19 PM
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Quarabian,
That's not correct, motorbikes are not permitted on definitive bridleways; but they are permitted on a byway (I was active in Essex Bridleways Association for many years).
I think Kimzi has summarised it well. This is why it is important to work with your council to ensure that ridden routes are not just used "because I've always ridden it" as that has no legal status, but that the routes are definitive and therefore are subject to rights and regulations.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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Nichole Waller
Gold Member
England
1168 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2010 : 3:20:07 PM
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We have this problem in the woods that we ride in regularly. The main path through the woods is a byway and is therefore used by 4 x 4 and motorbikes / quad bikes most weekends. It is really scary to be riding up the track and have a huge group of motorbikes come roaring up behind you. Unfortunately because it is a byway and not a bridleway there is nothing we can do about it. We tend to avoid it now at the weekends 
The problem is some of the bikers get curious and start wandering off the byway and in to the actual woods themselves. They have completely wrecked some parts  |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2010 : 3:36:43 PM
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I am really pleased to hear about the motorbikes not being allowed on bridleways. It has always bothered me as the bikes go up and down lots of times more than the horses and ruin the surface in wet weather.
Thanks Kharidian. I might need some of your expertise on this one. I am trying to open up some of the less frequently used paths around me. Farmers were reluctant to mend the gates because they believed that motorbikes would prevail if it became easier to access the bridleways. |
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Clutha
Bronze Member
155 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2010 : 4:08:35 PM
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| Hate to say it but the farmers are probably right. Just because the bikes are ment to be there doesn't mean they wont totally flought the law. Had some very nasty incidents with motorbikes in woods that they weren't ment to be in, forestry commission could do jack all even though they had the law on their side. Police weren't interested as many came from local traveller camp that they refused to enter, even when my friend had her car nicked & it was visible in the camp from the road, but that's another issue. |
Pip |
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alix liddle
Silver Member
England
421 Posts |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2010 : 10:23:17 PM
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If anyone has concerns re. the status of routes or with unauthorised vehicles etc on definitive routes, then the first port of call should be the Rights of Way (RoW) Officer at their County Council (not District Council, as RoW are the responsibility of the County). You will probably find there is a local Bridleways Association too.
With regards to motorbikes using routes, there are inventive ways of stopping them, one example being a couple of railway sleepers embedded in an entrance a few feet apart, so that horses can step over but motorbikes cannot be lifted over. I've also seen gates which are only a few inches high in the middle, again so that horses can step over but not bikes. Your RoW Officer should be aware of these and (depending on funds etc) may be able to install them. In Essex, we have always supplied volunteers to help with clearance, tree planting etc and have a good rapport with the Council.
If anyone needs specific advice, feel free to p.m. me, but please be aware that I am not an expert, merely having 10+ years of experience in a voluntary capacity - but I might be able to offer a few pointers.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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delly-b
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1107 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2010 : 4:02:48 PM
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Ooh Caryn
thanks for telling us about this idea to stop motorbikes.... Do you have any pics you can post as this is something we may have to consider... And do we need permission to put them in if it's a private road?
Thanks, Adele x |
       
Adele
Batley, West Yorkshire |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2010 : 8:56:23 PM
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Adele,
I can get photos at the weekend of sleepers into a permissive route if you wish. However, all the routes I've seen with sleeper barriers are fenced either side and therefore only "horse width" i.e. not roads. I don't know about the rights and responsibilites re. a private road - for example do you own the road/have a right of way over the road/what is on the Deeds etc so I don't know if you're permitted to put any form of barrier - I really would recommend taking advice from the County Council, or BHS representative etc as it is a leagal minefield.
Be prepared that you can potentially open a can of worms in as much as "once a highway, always a highway" and if people can prove either 20 years continuous use of a route before being stopped by a landowner and/or historic evidence i.e. from Finance Act maps or other old evidence in a Records Office then you may find that your "private road" actually has higher highway status i.e. a byway in which case ridden and driven horses, 4x4s, motor bikes etc can legally use the route!
In the Rochford District (in Essex) we have won routes which were never on a definitive map but we could prove continuous use until 1987 (for example) and no use until last year or so when we attended Public Enquiries and presented evidence for some routes....upshot is they have now been cleared, widened, County Council has surfaced some very muddy areas and the correct signage is up, being ridden regularly and the routes will be on the next OS map.
It is not a quick process! There were half a dozen active Rochford members and we had to submit our claims in 2002 (we had commenced getting evidence some 15+ years before, in some cases). We jumped through hoops to fulfill the legal criteria and submitted 25 routes and most have now been completed (we didn't win a few) and couple are still outstanding.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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Just
Bronze Member
England
231 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2010 : 9:20:48 PM
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"Hi Alix if it is a bridleway and not a byway you can contact your local council and ask them to inspect with the view to putting bollards at either end,but if there are any field entrances on the bridleway it may be classed as a green lane and owners of those fields may have have legal permission to access them with vehicles"
Re Green lane and Bridleway, does the green lane status still apply where access to fields is required but they are actually signposted as 'bridleway' ?
J |
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delly-b
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1107 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2010 : 12:49:42 PM
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Hi Caryn
thanks for that.... The place in question is at the end of our lane which is a private access only lane fir the people who live here. There used to be a proper style in place that was removed a few years ago as the rest of the lane was re classed as a bridle way... It is at the point where I am considering the "horse style" .... From this point cars etc can not pass through anyway as the track isno longer wide enough... It's just motorbikes that are the problem.
I have spoken to the council and am awaiting their return call to discuss it...
I was curious to see ones already in place .... If you could post pics that would be great.
Thanks Adele xx
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Adele
Batley, West Yorkshire |
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delly-b
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1107 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2010 : 12:51:04 PM
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Hi Caryn
thanks for that.... The place in question is at the end of our lane which is a private access only lane fir the people who live here. There used to be a proper style in place that was removed a few years ago as the rest of the lane was re classed as a bridle way... It is at the point where I am considering the "horse style" .... From this point cars etc can not pass through anyway as the track isno longer wide enough... It's just motorbikes that are the problem.
I have spoken to the council and am awaiting their return call to discuss it...
I was curious to see ones already in place .... If you could post pics that would be great.
Thanks Adele xx
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Adele
Batley, West Yorkshire |
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marionpack
Gold Member
England
1073 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2010 : 1:15:15 PM
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| What about if a by-way has had a sign up saying NO HORSES (it's a pic of a ridden horse inside a red circle - never seen one before) but prior to this being put up horses used to use it quite frequently, |
Berkshire
   
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2010 : 3:39:27 PM
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Adele,
I'll get a photo tomorrow.
Marion,
If it really is a definitive byway (marked by -+-+-+-+-+on an OS Landranger map, or ------to denote bridleway) then I would suggest that the sign is in error. Once again, please contact the Rights of Way Officer at the County Council for clarification. Who erected the sign?
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2010 : 7:14:45 PM
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Adele,
As promised, here is a picture (as you can see, it's in a poor state of repair at the moment). Presumably you wouldn't want the pedestrian gates as riders could just wheel their motorbikes through, but it gives you an idea. I must re-iterate, please ensure you have the authority to gate a route before you do so!
I hope this helps.
Caryn
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Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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Topic |
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4 x 4 on bridleways
