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 Zoolphokar 1906 - Grey Arab Stallion. (IImp).
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom

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Posted - 09 Sep 2009 :  10:41:35 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ZOOLPHOKAR - 1906. 14.3hh.Grey Stallion. Raced at Poona. any info or breeding of this Arabian Stallion from PALASTINE.

sire of Silverspray - 1925 ish. (Bwlch Valentino line).
Thansk Sue

Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 09 Jan 2010 02:16:47 AM
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Barabia
Gold Member


Sweden
1059 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2009 :  10:55:27 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Barabia to your friends list Send Barabia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Sue, no registered arabian on Datasource with that name..or similar, sorry!

"You Searched For: Horse Name: ZOOLPHOKAR
No horses found, that meet your search criteria."

Bia

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Pelle
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Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2009 :  11:32:34 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pelle to your friends list Send Pelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zoolphkar(from PALESTINE) 1906 14.2hh raced sucsessfully at Poonna, for 3 seasons, then sold to AHmednagar Arabian stud (Indian gov. stud) . then sold to Mrs Cassie M.C. Mcnaught. brought to england 1920. Stood at stud with Miss T.C. McNaught Folly Gate, Devon
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Pelle
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Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2009 :  8:35:30 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pelle to your friends list Send Pelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My mothers friend in Inwardleigh, has found some interesting information, its just lika a Hollywood movie;-)
The McNaught family returned from India in 1920 to Folly Gate, with 2 stallions and 3 mares, all oriental bred. The stallion Zoolphkar was never registed in UK, as Lt.Col E McNaught( the son) won him in a poker game in Poona 1919, and the Indian gov. and Ahmednagar stud, refused to let him leave India.In 1923 the McNaught family lost their fortune due to bad investments, and sold off all stock, horses cattle and sheep, and returned to India.
In 1962 Miss Cassie McNaught returned to UK from India as Mrs Shaahed Singh(widow of the late Hassein Shaahed Singh)and lived in London.
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Pelle
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Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2009 :  10:16:11 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pelle to your friends list Send Pelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My mothers friend has been asking around in Folly Gate , and got some info where the stallions who was sold at the sale, Zoolphkar the arab stallion, and Jollibits the *african Barb*( grey 14,1hh played polo for 12 seasons , terrible temprament, a real killer), as soon as mother got something intersting I will let you know./ pelle
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Pelle
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Sweden
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Posted - 19 Sep 2009 :  10:01:43 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pelle to your friends list Send Pelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At the sale in 1923 Zoolphkar was sold to Miss Emily C E Egenian, Tanganyika, East Africa ( the biggest landowner in africa) and the barb stallion Jollibits was sold to Lt Col James Lewis-Court, Lingford Picket Post, Ringwood, Hants. and at stud in the forest for 6 seasons, then died of phenomia. All his stock was grey.
The mares Jellaby (imp gulf mare) raced at Madras 15 hh sold mto Ms Georgina Morse, Isle of Luing, Argyllshire.
Azzaz chestnut mare by Silver Trush (ahmednagar) out of Camina ( des bred from Alexandria) sold to James Thomsson, Lingfield, Surrey.
Johara chestnut, 14 1hh raced for 9 seasons at Poona, winner of 8 races. Rs 21 640- from 5 furlongs to 1 mile. Sold to Signora Gina Consetti, Valetta,Malta.
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Pelle
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Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2009 :  6:58:24 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pelle to your friends list Send Pelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Rozy Rider

What sale was that Pelle, I must have missed that.
There must be a few horses listed by Zoolphokar, I be the first thing they did was change his name to the English version ??.
Keep it coming.
Cheers Sue

I have just talked to an indian friend who speaks both hindustani and urdu and he told me that Zoolphkar is just a name like Peter or Tom and does'nt mean anything at all.
Mother will look in her files if she find anything useful about Zoolphkar when he was in Africa.
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Pelle
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Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2009 :  7:33:31 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pelle to your friends list Send Pelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zoolphkar sired the colt Laughter (1923) out of Lady Rosa 19?
by Goodfellow (by Dwarka (des arab stallion))dam??
out of Foxhams White Heather (aged) measured 1929 , 12,1 hh by Dartmoor ex Dartmoor, owner Mrs J Oscar Muntz, Horrabridge, Devon,
he was sold to Timmermans, Holland in 1926. Was used at stud for a long time , and some stock in NPA (Partbred arab reg in holland)can be tracing back to him.
Laughter was 14,1 hh and grey, with good bone.
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2009 :  1:16:05 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dwarka

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/laughter11

I've also found a ZOOWAR (NPS 513) Grey 14.1h.
Cheers Sue

Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 28 Oct 2009 8:42:10 PM
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dormouse
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United Kingdom
203 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2009 :  2:34:07 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dormouse to your friends list Send dormouse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Below is a copy of the relevant bit from this website - http://www.arieana.com/nborigst.html

Dwarka
GSB #216
GSB Volume XXV)
Color: Bay
Sex: Stallion
Foaled: 1892
Height: 14.1 1/2 Hands
Bone: 7 3/4 Inches

Sire: Desert Bred
Dam: Desert Bred
Strain: Kehilan

From our Arieana Notebook: Dwarka, who earned himself the title of "The Marvel", was registered in the General Stud Book as "chosen especially by a friendly Arab Sheykh, in the heart of Anazeh country, for Major-General Ralph Broome, who took him to India in 1897, where he won many races." Sold to Mrs. Atkinson and imported to England in 1901 where he served as her sidesaddle field hunter. Later owned by Captain W.A. McDougall AVD, of the Scaurs, Jedburgh. In 1916 when Dwarka was 24 years old, Dwarka was either leased or sold to the Prince of Wales (later King Edward VIII of England) where he stood at stud at his Tor Royal Stud, Devonshire. Destroyed at Tor Royal in 1921 at age 29, Dwarka's skeleton was donated to the British Museum. Today at Arieana Arabians the blood of Dwarka lives on in our bloodstock through his son *Aldebar. (Notes on Dwarka derived from "Desertbreds, Writers and Errors, and Other Things" by Gladys Brown Edwards. Arabian Horse World, March 1973.)

A couple of other websites re dartmoor ponies.
http://www.petmd.com/horse/breeds/c_hr_dartmoor_pony
http://www.dartmoorhillpony.com/history.html

Hope this is helpful.

Suzy
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2009 :  3:27:25 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome Dormouse, Thanks for the link and info on Dwarka and good to have the feedback.

Anything you may be able to add for our Silverspray 1925 ish, you can add would be welcome...Thanks for the Arabian Horse World info, makes very interesting reading. Mrs J Oscar Muntz has several Dartmoor ponies under registered under 'Foxhams' I can not find White Heather.
And I'm about to start adding her Polo & Riding ponies from ' The Love' line. Love Knot,Song,Promise,Young Love, Lovely Girl.

Thanks folks.
Cheers Sue

Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 28 Oct 2009 10:04:23 PM
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dormouse
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United Kingdom
203 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2009 :  3:47:07 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dormouse to your friends list Send dormouse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Only thing I can find on the internet regarding Zoowar is this link that says nothing is know about him apart from the he raced successfully in India.
http://www.agecroft.arabianhorse.com/materials/strainsk.htm

And this link which contains a picture.
http://www.old-print.com/mas_assets/full/F1241911791.jpg

Someone has but on http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/zoowar that he was desert bred in Arabia, imported to England @1910 by Hon. George Savile, d-1920

Cheers

Suzy

Just looked there is listed as AHS President a Captain Hon. George Savile for 1922. Could this be the same person?

Edited by - dormouse on 14 Oct 2009 5:12:47 PM
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Lynda
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England
1957 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2009 :  6:26:07 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Lynda to your friends list Send Lynda a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope that this information might be of help. I have found reference to Zoowar in the Polo and Riding Pony stud book Vol X11, which covers the years 1911-1912

Zoowar : Grey with scar on wither Aged Height 14.1h.h and measured in October 1912. Bred in Arabia. Owned by Capt. G.B. Ollivant, Cavalry Club, London S.W.

Later owned by Hon. G. Saville, Ditton Lodge, Thames Ditton, Surrey.

1912 1st London Polo and Riding Pony Show
Won Punjab Army Cup and Handicap steeplechase in 1907, and many other races on the flat and over hurdles.

Capt. The Honourable George Saville was President of the AHS in 1922.
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Lila
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Netherlands
1097 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2009 :  8:39:49 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Lila to your friends list Send Lila a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Sue,

Just read through the topic and saw that the Timmermans have owned Zoolphkar. Two gentleman (brothers), who live near me, must have known this stallion, the guys are ancient and they know everything from the old days. Will go round this weekend to ask them o.k??
Will have a look at the old pedigrees i have, because my first mare traces back to a stallion owned by the Timmermans.
Hope I can find something out, Monique

M. Lankhaar
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2009 :  12:48:05 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lila, Just read your posting, what a small world it is..I've got my fingers crossed you get some info for us....It was a Zoolphkar sired colt, LAUGHTER 1923, that went to the Timmermans in Holland in 1926 and it is Laughter that sired stock that might be found in the Holland NPA (Part Breds Arabs) we hope.
Pelle added that Laughter was by Zoolphkar 1906, and out of Lady Rosa, by Goodfellow (Dwarka-Arabian). and that Laughter was used a lot in Holland. he was a Grey 14.1h.

I wonder if the Timmermans have/had a prefix. and any old records of there horses from the past. These need to be archived for safe keeping.
Good Luck.
Thank You Sue

Bia, Have PM'd you.Thanks Sue

Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 24 Oct 2009 1:52:54 PM
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Lila
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Netherlands
1097 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2009 :  2:30:15 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Lila to your friends list Send Lila a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Sue,

Just called mr. Hermans, he is going to dig, so funny these guys are ancient, started breeding in 1944 or so. And I have send an email to the NRPS dutch part bred registry.

Monique

M. Lankhaar
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2009 :  9:56:45 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lila, Can't wait..
Doormouse, sent you a PM.
Lynda & Nimlat..What would we do without you..
Pelle. Keep it coming.(where did you see the Zoolphkar info any chance of a copy.Please.
Sue

Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 28 Oct 2009 10:53:07 PM
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Lila
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Netherlands
1097 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2009 :  4:26:39 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Lila to your friends list Send Lila a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Sue,

Have had an answer from both societies, neither of them have any record whatsoever.

Kind regards, Monique

M. Lankhaar
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2009 :  09:10:18 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Lila, So was there any news back from the Timmermans ???? and Thanks for trying. Anything at all, keep us posted.
Thank You.
Sue.

Sue
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Lila
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Netherlands
1097 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2009 :  7:59:51 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Lila to your friends list Send Lila a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The men are called Hermans, but they did not find him either. I am not aware if any relatives of the Timmermans are still alive. If I have time I will dig my own archive o.k??

Monique

M. Lankhaar
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Pelle
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Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2009 :  5:57:22 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pelle to your friends list Send Pelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
mother has found a photo taken at Hurlingham 1933 :
Captain Roark on his favorite pony Zoolka, by Zoolkar (arab, india) ex Victory polobred Tb.
Zoolka is 14.3hh and grey.
(will send it to you email)
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2009 :  11:00:39 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found this.on Google.
One other, however, will probably swing a British mallet when the team takes the field. He is Capt. C. T. I. Roark, an Irishman, connected with the British Army in India merely by reason of his membership in the reserve corps.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,736822,00.html#ixzz16nuaztw5

Pelle, Could you mean:
Lord Lucas (1876-1916) New Forest pony enthusiast.

Lord Lucas, Dingwall, Picket Post, Ringwood, Hants,
as having the Barb Stallion ?????

He used a Chestnut 14.2h stallion named JACKO 422 in 1914.
(see vol.XX page 29 ref.Rosina for details)
He also used a stallion called St.Lucions Pride.
I've got to find both of these yet to check them out.

Ring any bells for you..
Sue

Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 30 Nov 2010 9:37:29 PM
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2009 :  2:53:45 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pelle, Leaving you the link to the first horse I'v efound so far with a direct link to The Government Stud Farm in Palestine...
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/miriam+ii3 (AHS Vol.4. p.147.)
so there will be more...

Zoolka is 14.3hh and grey.
Still waiting for your pic to come.

Sue

Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 22 Dec 2009 8:17:50 PM
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Pelle
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Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2010 :  6:04:36 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pelle to your friends list Send Pelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mother has found an article: The arab horse of Palestine.
by M.S O'Rorke
The Palestine Police
Will photocopy it and send it to you.
Pelle.
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Lynda
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England
1957 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2010 :  11:49:21 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Lynda to your friends list Send Lynda a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found some info in the Journal of the Arab Horse Society, called The Arab Horse in India, Past and Present by Brigadier W.H. Anderson CBE. late Director of Remounts in India.

Apart from the introduction, there is mention of Foundation Sires of the Ahmednager Stud. This states that about 26 Arab stallions purchased from the racecourse at Bombay and Poona, have been at the stud since 1902. The most distinguised of them were the following:
Singer (1906) Purity (1909) Zoolphokar (1906) Grey 14.2, leg 7in, girth 64.5in; winner of six races Rs 12,300 all from 4-6 furlongs.
Others mentioned are: Dictate (1914) Krushan (1915) Warminster (1913) Ferry Boat (1912) Silver Thrush (1921) Mundil; Khundil; Amin; Mansoor Beg; Tit-bits.
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Rozy Rider
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United Kingdom
4545 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2010 :  6:11:24 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rozy Rider to your friends list Send Rozy Rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BINGO.....Brill Job Lynda...Thats what were after.
Cheers & Thanks very much. Sue

copied from Pelle's posting from above, trhoiught it rang bells.

'Azzaz chestnut mare by Silver Trush (ahmednagar) out of Camina ( des bred from Alexandria) sold to James Thomsson, Lingfield, Surrey.'

Sue


Sue

Edited by - Rozy Rider on 12 Jan 2010 3:29:54 PM
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