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Marie-ann1
Gold Member


England
1061 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2006 :  6:46:06 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Marie-ann1's MSN Messenger address Bookmark this reply Add Marie-ann1 to your friends list Send Marie-ann1 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have just done mine and they go as follows...

Belle El Jamaal - Saklawieh - ????

GF Pahira - Sahara - Or Ar. Founder of Polish Female family nr 3.
Sahara was a grey Kohejlan-Moradi acquired in the desert by Count Juliusz Dzieduszycki and imported to Jarczowce in 1845. Her daughter Sahara Slepka was foaled during the journey from Arabia.*

GF Pasadena - Urfah - AHR 40Desert Bred in Syria by Anazeh tribe
Imp to US 1906 by Homer Davenport *

Are these considered good Tail femail lines???? I have no idea???

Marie-Ann
Maidstone, Kent

www.arwenarabians.com/
http://milleniumjamaal.arwenarabians.com/index.html
http://www.freewebs.com/stallionbreeding/index.htm
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
2028 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2006 :  7:01:01 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GHALEEM to your friends list Send GHALEEM a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was wondering if there is anywhere (or anyone) whom you can pay to get your horses pedigree information for you. It seems there are so many people who want to know this information, someone could be making some money. I would definately pay for such a service
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anne
Gold Member

England
877 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2006 :  11:05:43 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add anne to your friends list Send anne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This thread should come with an addiction warning once you start on that http://www.allbreedpedigree.com hours just disappear got my arab back to 1833 and my anglo arab (sadly nolonger with us) back to 1613 I find the photos and paintings fantastic sorry to be so shallow will do homework on the breeding when my cat is not walking over the keyboard


..................................................................... Photo by David Evans

Edited by - anne on 08 Sep 2006 2:41:08 PM
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kofihorse
Bronze Member

241 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  08:11:19 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kofihorse to your friends list Send kofihorse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is THE most fascinating thread! I've often wondered what it is that breeders look for when choosing to put a particular mare and stallion together and when people talk about a particular "type" eg "Crabbet", "Egyptian", then intrigued as to what characteristics they are trying to produce in the foal.(Apart from colour)

Both of mine were /are 14.1 so I assume that possibly height was a deliberate choice by breeders in their pedigrees.As opposed to people more recently who are producing taller horses.

Maybe the board could start a few threads eg one for strains and their characteristics,one for foundation stallion's characteristics etc?? Then, if the knowledgeable folks on here are happy (and have the time), they could give us thirsty for knowledge peeps some clues? It would be a great resource on this board.

Fee - see what you've started!!
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Arabmare
Gold Member


United Kingdom
627 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  08:22:31 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Arabmare to your friends list Send Arabmare a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kofi, my mare is 14.1hh too!

My pure bred is: kuhaylahajuz

my part bred, if i follow her arab mare side not welsh is:
kuhaylahajuz too lol!


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Eeyore
Gold Member


1181 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  11:03:54 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Eeyore to your friends list Send Eeyore a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I have followed my arabs and she goes back to Kuhaylahajuz (hope I spelt that correctly)!

This is fascinating.

HelÚna
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Honeyb060674
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
4301 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  11:37:19 AM  Show Profile  Send Honeyb060674 an AOL message Bookmark this reply Add Honeyb060674 to your friends list Send Honeyb060674 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There seem to be so many horses that trace back to Kuhaylahajuz. I agree that this is yet another intriguing topic for even a novice like me and its interesting as Kofi said, to hear of characteristics of the different lines etc


Claire & Sunny x
http://sunnyandclaire.blogspot.com/
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  11:46:16 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Minuette, is Rodania tail female, and a lot was written about her (Rodania) being a somewhat difficult mare!, strange thing is although Minuette is not difficult, she is a matriac mare and all her daughters (and sons) have attitude, now I dont know if this was inherited or not but I have heard similar stories of Rodania mares being known as difficult, headstrong, loads of attitude! after saying this many very famous horses trace to Rodania


www.dreamfield-arabians.com
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georgiauk
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
2605 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  2:50:26 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add georgiauk to your friends list Send georgiauk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh cripes I'm in trouble as all of my mares are tail female to Rodania My Marcipan yearling has big attitude and there was me blaming the Russian's
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Fee
Platinum Member


2601 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  4:06:09 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Fee to your friends list Send Fee a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Have to agree with you Kofi and what a great idea!

It's obvious there is huge desire for this knowledge to be shared and learned. Thank you again Egbert for sharing your personal knowledge with us and as you can see it was and is very popular!


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Mike
Platinum Member

Eire
1872 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  4:52:15 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Send Mike a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lynn,

I wouldn't worry The vast majority of Rodiana's direct descendants exhibit her temperament no more than by having a bit of attitude, occasional wilfullness and sometimes by being a little standoffish which can be won over resulting in tremendous friendship and loyalty In order to bring out the "hotter" end of the temperament spectrum, you need to concentrate the influence of key descendants and deliberately choose to breed for it. There are compensations in the form of movement and structural soundness, loyalty as well paradoxically common sense that go hand in hand with the very much hotter temperament.

Trust me, if you had a really hot Rodiana, you would know!!

Mike
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  5:27:47 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Again that explains a lot Mike! some of Minuettes sons were consided too much of a handful, the sires used on her were also known to be difficult, (wont mention names) ( one young foal came at me as soon as he could stand! ears flat back and trying to bite me with his gums!) yet her sons and daughters from WSA Charismma are much, shall I say saner? yet still have attitude, As you also say, she was hard to win over and very aloof when I first bought her, but now she is a very loving and loyal friend.


www.dreamfield-arabians.com

Edited by - LYNDILOU on 07 Sep 2006 8:01:13 PM
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sue
Bronze Member


United Kingdom
169 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  7:25:38 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sue to your friends list Send sue a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi it seems a lot of horses go back to kuhaylahajuz
for those of you that have horses to go back to kuhaylahajuz what are they like?

I agree with Ghaleem, i will deff be willing to pay for such a service, im currently trying to get all the info i can on my 2 arabs to make a book for my mum for xmas! proving difficult at the moment, esp with Kimm but he is the one i want most info on as he has unfortunaly passed away.

Hannah
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  8:07:32 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I dont think there is anyone alive that can give you the information you are looking for, apart from Egbert and Mike maybe but what you can do is buy as many books as you can lay your hands on, and study , study, study. from that you will glean as much about your horses ancestors as anyone else can, its a long and hard process, so good luck


www.dreamfield-arabians.com
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Judith S
Platinum Member


Wales
15686 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  8:27:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit Judith S's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Judith S to your friends list Send Judith S a Private Message  Reply with Quote
this is fascinating!!! I've come late onto this thread - my late mare Zahera was a Kuhaylahajuz (very fine & refined with a HUGH character & chestnut!), Tessa (Rumbolfds Contessa) is Kehilan Ajux.
Tried to follow my other through - but their lines fall short

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beau
Gold Member

United Kingdom
806 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  8:33:42 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add beau to your friends list Send beau a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi, i havin probs i can go back as far as ARABKA (KADRANKA) on all breeds (is that a tail female line) I have a book on Arabians mentions all horses mentioned on this thread apart from Arabka (confused).

Jodie
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blissy
Bronze Member


United Kingdom
113 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  8:54:33 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blissy to your friends list Send blissy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Mike,

My mare goes back to Rodania, I bred her to Indian Banner who also goes back to Rodania does that mean I am in for double trouble Just kidding, the filly produced by this breeding is very brave, up for most anything, she is the most loving horse I have ever had and loves to learn. I have to admit though she will try it on with someone new (very cheeky).
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anne
Gold Member

England
877 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2006 :  10:51:16 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add anne to your friends list Send anne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Sue
My mare goes back to Kuhaylahajuz got her in feb 05. She was 4 in march 05 and backed her in aug of that year, due to my father in law having a stroke in september a friend offered to help school her on for me she was very eager to learn and please. We did the basics with her then turned her away in november with my other horse as I usually do to have a break and the winter off. I had a major op in feb so did not bring them back into work untill may but she is a star takes everything in her stride loves to be involved and soooooo nosey has to know what's going on. Due to general life it has been a bit stop start with her but she just takes it in her stride. A fantastic family member


..................................................................... Photo by David Evans
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2006 :  11:00:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There are a few things that one must know about the "KUHAILAN" lines...First, according to Lady W, the name Kuhailan simply meant 'pure'. That being the case the Kuhailan Ajuz/ajus...simply meant 'purebloods' and then the tribe with which they were asssocitated were tagged on...i.e., Kuhailan Ajuz of the Ibn Rodan...for Rodania. To clarify about Rodania...She had been horribly mistreated when she was injured in a ghazu/raid and ended up not trusting humans. It was a year or two before she came around once arriving at Crabbet. From the birth of her first foal there, she was a changed horse. But the thing you have to remember about the Rodania line, as Mike noted, they do have 'attitude' and that makes for great show horses. They have an edge when they hit the ring which makes Rodania line horses win more frequently than any other line. Personally I've found them all to be a tad aloof but once trust is established, they are wonderfully sweet, affectionate and surprisingly loyal. Another thing is that they are very very intelligent...They think about things before they will do them! If you have one with too much attitude...Bright Shadow blood/Fejr...tends to mitigate and the resulting foal becomes that much sweeter. Doubling up on Rodania...must be done with care. Look out for too much Nureddin II (Rijm x Narghilehz) which seeems to confer a bit of coarseness when combined with Rodania on nearly every line....something that seems to come up a lot in British breeding, thanks to the Rodania line fecundity. Blunt would advise crossing on/with Seglawi to refine the line. It does work, too but similar results will occur when crossing over to Hamdani Simri/Hadban Enzahi, etc. The two strongest/most successful of the Kuhailan lines, particularly in the UK, are those tracing to Rodania and Dajania with Dajania's renown being the outstanding stallions derived from the line--Naseem/Naziri...(Blissy you might notice that Indian Banner has FEJR on his dam line...and that marvelous disposition certainly came through with your baby, as you describe her!)

Jodie, Arabka is a Polish line, I think brought in from Sachna. The problem with some of the old Polish lines is that they were brought in from Arabia...by the invading Ottoman Turks who were thrown out by the Poles, but the mares were captured. The result is that the strain identity of the captured mares was unknown. So you have to kind of recognize the look which the Poles tended to breakdown as either Kuhailan or Seglawi. Most they would call Kuhailan and only two, Seglawi. Those lines coming through Spain come from Kebrebassa whose descendants tend to look quite Kuhailan. In her book, THE CLASSIC ARABIAN HORSE, Judith Forbis gives close to 150 Kuhailan strains...(food for thought)

Folks it is 3 in the morning over here...So have a terrific day and will hopefully be able to add more tomorrow!
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2006 :  11:09:38 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I often wondered when you actually slept thanks for all that information, can you suggest any good books with more info for people to read?


www.dreamfield-arabians.com

Edited by - LYNDILOU on 08 Sep 2006 2:10:44 PM
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2006 :  11:18:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
THE CRABBET ARABIAN STUD, Archer Covey and Pearson
SPANISH ARABIAN HORSE FAMILIES by Joanna Maxwell
THE ARAB HORSE FAMILIES OF GREAT BRITIAIN...by Dr. Pesi Gazder
THE CLASSIC ARABIAN HORSE by Judith Forbis
THE ARABIAN HORSE FAMILIES OF POLAND by Britta Fahlgren
DAVENPORT ARABIANS by Homer Davenport (out of print but fabulous-watch ebay and Amazon for used copies)

Thanks Lynda...!
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2006 :  11:23:12 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was able to buy the kellogg arabians thier background and influence, by Herbert Reece in collaboration with Gladys Brown Edwards, which I found very interesting also. now off to bed with you !


www.dreamfield-arabians.com
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shah
Gold Member

England
1356 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2006 :  12:28:42 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add shah to your friends list Send shah a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is a most interesting thread. You're getting me to spend my lunch hour on allbreedspedigree...not that I've never been there before...but you learn so much by going back...

Agree with Rodania horses seeming aloof - Shah has the disdain look down to a tee! The comment about how they think about things before doing them is also something I can agree on (like a 2-year old child asking why all the time!). I seem to have gotten much more Rodania temperament than bargained for!

West Sussex
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Mike
Platinum Member

Eire
1872 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2006 :  1:09:05 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Send Mike a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Rodiana intelligence, can be both a blessing and a curse On the down-side tricks/deceptions to get them to do something that they don't want to do, will only ever work once if at all! Then there is the low boredom threshold/impatience ... "we've been doing this for literally minutes!, isn't it about time to do something else!!! "Haven't you got that bl**dy bridle on yet!!" etc etc On the other hand, rather than disappear over the horizon when confronted with something new/"scary" the usual reaction is to take a few steps back and then have another/better look. Finally, when the chips are really down and you really do need "calm and sensible" you get it, without an eyelid being batted, even from a horse at the "H Bomb" end of the temperament spectrum!

Mike
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member

Denmark
744 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2006 :  1:36:21 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gu-ku-vi to your friends list Send gu-ku-vi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reading this is so wonderfull, what a wisdom you all have about the original mares.

I haven┤t been in touch with many arabians and never will be, but I have traced mine, to be almost Rodania, Darjani, except of course for the Skowronek, blood.

Allthoug two of my mares has Dafina as tail female, Dafina is only representet in that one line, all the other female lines are Rodania, Darjani in the ancestors.

In such a case do you mean that Dafina as a tail fenale has any influence to day in my girls?

I┤m talking about my pure Crabbets. In case of Tegan ( Prince Sadik x Dankels Silent tears ) others are represented.She is different from the others both in type and temper.

Hard for me to explain , but hope you understand what I mean.

Gunni.

Edited by - gu-ku-vi on 08 Sep 2006 1:39:15 PM
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