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Kash
Platinum Member


England
3777 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2006 :  10:16:33 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kash to your friends list Send Kash a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry to jump in but I'd very interested to hear about my mare's lines.
She's http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/agonia2

Many thanks!

 
Photographs by Emma Maxwell and Peter Grant
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katefox1812
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
1612 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2006 :  4:08:47 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add katefox1812 to your friends list Send katefox1812 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ooh - Egbert, could you look at my colt's pedigree as well! You will soon wish that you hadn't started all this; it's awfully kind of you to be so generous with your time and knowledge (and praise)!

I don't know how to make his allbreedpedigree thing come up on here (sorry - I'm a bit blonde when it comes to technology) but the name is H Tobago, 2004 by Psytadel (Padrons Psyche x Bint Bey Shah) out of Teeba (Gonorar x Queens Topaz).

He is a mix of Russian, English, Polish and American lines.

I know his strain is Keheileh Dajanieh (spellings vary)- ie tail female Dajania, which is actually the same as that of my first horse, General Lee Gold, although they are quite different in many ways.

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nikki
Platinum Member


Wales
4384 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2006 :  4:23:17 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nikki to your friends list Send nikki a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Egbert.

I was getting a bit confused as i'd read Zaqrah's tail female line to be hamdanieh saudia. It was stated in the recent ahs stud book vol 20 as ukrainka, that was a mistake.
I have the amiri stud books vol 1-4 of Bahrain. Jane Kadri very kindly managed to get 2 of them for me.
Cheers Nikki

pagey
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  07:26:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kash,

Your mare is basically a Russian/Polish cross with a healthy doses of Crabbet and Egyptian, albeit being bred at Tersk, she is Straight Russian. She is a Kuhailan Moradi tracing to the great Polish foundation mare and desert import Sahara. The pedigree suggests that she is very attractive and a robust athlete.

Hi Kate,

Your boy must be very very beautiful and a bit of a handful...a substantial stallion, he is going through the terrible twos and with a firm hand, he'll be a terrific breeding stallion. For a wife I'd look for a sweet mare that boasts Bright Shadow on at least one side of her pedigree!

Nikki,

Well done, Jane! She is always a huge help. Can you post a picture of Zaqrah? She really sounds interesting.
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Marie-Molly
Gold Member


United Kingdom
929 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  09:32:26 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Marie-Molly to your friends list Send Marie-Molly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Egbert!

I thought I'd jump in too and ask your opinion on the two pure-bred stallions I have selected for my mare. I won't act on it for a couple of years, but would like to have your opinion.

My mare's pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sameon+maurabba

First stallion: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ijaaz

Second stallion: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/magic+domino

The offsprings would be for me to keep and bring on to hopefully compete in endurance at FEI level.

Thanks!
Marie

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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member

Denmark
744 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  09:53:41 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gu-ku-vi to your friends list Send gu-ku-vi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is it possible now to have frozen or chilled semen from Magic Dominoe, a I have asked for that a couple of years now, never get an answer.

Gunni.
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  10:49:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Marie,

What you need is a good Seglawi or Hamdani stallion for your girl. I think Magic Domino while a lovely pedigree would be a bit coarse for you as you would be doubling and tripling a lot of the same horses that are fairly good-sized and powerful already...Ijaaz has a lovely pedigree and if he were a gray, think you couldn't do much better if you must stay within the strain...I'd rather see you breed to Narim, though. You do realize all have the same dam line/strain?

I've no idea whether or not Magic Domino is chilled or frozen. Isn't he in the states now? Am amazed if they are not answering!

Edited by - Egbert on 28 Sep 2006 11:08:31 AM
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katefox1812
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
1612 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  10:55:06 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add katefox1812 to your friends list Send katefox1812 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you so much Egbert! Spot on, of course - your ability to read pedigrees seems almost psychic! (Fortunately he's also very sweet-natured, and trained by the wonderful Mark Gamlin.)

I hate to impose on you any more, but I'm intrigued by the Bright Shadow suggestion - why would this be good?

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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  11:06:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bright Shadow is a funny old horse....He ALWAYS transmits (lets put it this way, I've never known any descendants that weren't very kind and sweet...presumably there could always be one off) a great temperament up close and transmits tremendous quality to mares, if not beauty. He was a stallion that seemed to outsire himself and also he carried his best traits to chestnuts and grays and unusually powerful qualities to his bays. Just a tremendous stallion in a pedigree but you don't want it tripled up close...Oh and in your horse's case...the American breeding tends to be a tad HOT!

Edited by - Egbert on 28 Sep 2006 11:10:33 AM
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Marie-Molly
Gold Member


United Kingdom
929 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  11:12:26 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Marie-Molly to your friends list Send Marie-Molly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you Egbert!

Ijaaz is grey, as were both his parents, so I should get a grey from that mating. He is a fantastic stallion with the sweetest nature.

I think Narim is too old now and is no longer at public stud.

I might have to find another girl for Magic Domino, what would you recommend? The reason I am really interested in a foal from him is that he is 16h, 100% crabbet, beautiful and half brother through his dam to Hachim, who was the Endurance World Champion in 2005!

Marie

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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  11:21:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Find a mare that is refined and makes your heart sing. I prefer the Seglawis or Hamdani Simris for a cross to a horse such as Magic Domino. Am curious, have you seen any of his babies? Size is no guarantor of ridden strength....Another stallion you might consider...is Carmargue Too IF you aren't worried about 'straight'.
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nikki
Platinum Member


Wales
4384 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  11:41:50 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nikki to your friends list Send nikki a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hiya Egbert,

Yes it was very kind of Jane and her friends to get me those books! I had a wonderful suprise, as i was only expecting one book, Vol 1, and i got Vol 4 as well!
Vol 1 is great as it has all the strain names, and even stories of how they got the strain names.
Like the mare Kray, she was a great warhorse, and fought bravely, the enemy wanted her down, so unfortunately she was killed, but she is the only mare, that the master took her name for his own.
The Kray strain is only available in Bahrain, and now Great Britain via Jenny Lees.
There is a great website somewhere, i'll see if i can post a link to it. It's about the horses of Bahrain, and goes through the 20 or so different strains.

I can't post pics i'm afraid, but if you e-mail me, i should be able to send you some nikki.page@britanniaschoolofmotoring.co.uk

Zaqrahs full sister is now in Jordan. Princess Alia bought her, unseen, stating that half bahraini is good enough for her, even though they haven't bought to show, she has already been placed 2nd at a c show.

I have a gelding here, who has Bright Crown in him. He is the most sweetest natured horse in the world! My first arab, my first horse.

Cheers Nikki

pagey
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Indalo
Silver Member


United Kingdom
298 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  12:50:11 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Indalo's MSN Messenger address Bookmark this reply Add Indalo to your friends list Send Indalo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Egbert

If your not too tired after doing all these reviews could you have a look at the pedigrees of the attched mares and see what you think would be suitable sires for them?? Shemona has this year had her first foal - a colt by PHA Silvern Risalm

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/shemona

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/maria+maria+bint+santanna

Thanks

Best Regards

Indalo
IndaloArabians@yahoo.com

Silvern Sameer

Edited by - Indalo on 28 Sep 2006 12:51:30 PM
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nikki
Platinum Member


Wales
4384 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  1:40:37 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nikki to your friends list Send nikki a Private Message  Reply with Quote
heres the link to the website

http://www.bahrainhorses.gov.bh/econtents.php


Enjoy!

pagey
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Kash
Platinum Member


England
3777 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  2:03:41 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kash to your friends list Send Kash a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Super - thanks Egbert!

 
Photographs by Emma Maxwell and Peter Grant
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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  8:38:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Indalo,

Caroline Archer's Grecian Idyll, a straight Crabbet Hamdani Simri stallion is whom I'd try on both mares. Risalm is very much a 'no-miss' stallion and would think that though a resulting foal would be intensely Kuhailan-it would be the best of the best possilbe result. Your Risalm youngster must be lovley.

Or another thought: If Ali Khamsin by Carmargue is available (I've heard he was sold from Halsdon) to outside breeders...he is a Seglawi and I saw several of his foals some years ago on a visit to Halsdon, that were extremely lovely. Another fabulous Seglawi Carmargue son would be Arazi.

Since both mares are fairly intensely Kuhailan as it is...would like to see a cross over over to the Seglawi or Hamdani lines.

Thanks, Nikki! But couldn't get to the Bahrain horses....

Kash, glad to help!

Edited by - Egbert on 28 Sep 2006 8:47:08 PM
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Treasure
Silver Member

England
442 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  9:56:47 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Treasure to your friends list Send Treasure a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Justin (Indalo), obviously I know Shemona but who is Maria Maria bint Santanna? Is she with Judith too?
How is your lovely little colt?

Carolyn

Johaara Arabians
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Treasure
Silver Member

England
442 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  10:05:57 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Treasure to your friends list Send Treasure a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Egbert,

I'm fascinated at how you seem to be able to describe and predict horses from their pedigrees - a bit like horoscopes but far, far more scientific!!

I posted before and said that my mare, Khazana bint Almas, and my new filly to be (at weaning) both have the same tail female line to Nuhra and their sires seem to both have tail female to Selma, which sems like an extraordinary coincidence to me as it certainly wasn't planned that way! They are quite different types though. Khazana is by Diamond Star out of Raqisa and the filly is Azaari x Monsoon (Camargue and El Shaklan on both sides). I'd be interested in any comments!!

Carolyn

Johaara Arabians
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katefox1812
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
1612 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  10:53:54 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add katefox1812 to your friends list Send katefox1812 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Marie-Molly


I think Narim is too old now and is no longer at public stud.

Marie


I hope Jane won't mind me jumping in here to point out that Narim IS still at public stud, and certainly not too old - I saw him at Al Waha very recently, looking as magnificent as ever!

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jaj
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
4324 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  11:20:27 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaj to your friends list Send jaj a Private Message  Reply with Quote
possibly try Anne Brown at Gadebrook Stud for info on Magic Domino if not tried there already

http://www.gadebrookstud.com/fs_stallionsstud.htm

Jen




Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma)
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katefox1812
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
1612 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  11:24:11 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add katefox1812 to your friends list Send katefox1812 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Egbert for the explanation re Bright Shadow wives for Tobago!

As you undoubtedly know, he has Bright Shadow in his pedigree too - through the supposedly 'Russian' Padron!

Can you look in your very scientific crystal ball and predict whether a horse is likely to pass on a particular trait or quality? I assume it has something to do with the strength of that trait in the horse's pedigree? I am interested to know whether Tobago is likely to pass on his spectacular 'Russian' movement. I thought that this came principally from his maternal grandsire Gonorar, but have now seen a lot of very good-moving Psytadel offspring, so am wondering if there is a 'source' on this side of his pedigree as well? And if so, would this 'double whammy' in the pedigree mean he would be more likely to pass it on?

And - sorry - just one more question: could you tell me which elements of his American breeding are the 'hot' ones? (Might perhaps be a good idea to avoid doubling up on those, methinks...although a bit of 'heat' is probably a good thing in a show horse.)

May I say - and I'm sure I speak for everybody here - how much I enjoy reading your comments and advice? Your knowledge and insights are quite amazing. It is so kind of you to share them with us. I am longing to know about your own horses! What lines do you breed from yourself?

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Egbert
Gold Member


USA
1051 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  11:30:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Egbert's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Egbert to your friends list Send Egbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Treasure,

My background for this is a bit weird...I did post-grad studies in chemistry, physics, anatomy and math...all courses I steered clear of while going for the Bachelors degree (though I had to take 2 years of biology-no choice)...but had always been interested in genetics and medicine. Basically - to my mind, and this is possibly way out of the box - Mendel made rules that fit plants but to really understand what is going on genetically you have to understand how chemistry works as well. Often I'll use cooking analogies because, again, it is like chemistry as we are carefully adding, subtracting and neutralizing ingredients.

One of the odd things I have found over the decades of studying pedigrees was that many of the great breeders here in the US, would buy horses randomly, not know the pedigrees a whit and managed, as you have, to buy what appeared to be totally different horses but in nearly every case, bought the same dam line. Some of the bigger farms had two favorite dam lines tho' they didn't know it til I sat down and ran the pedigrees. Oddly that was a fairly consistent trend. Perhaps we see certain traits and characteristics that the tribes did and bred for accordingly.

Treasure, that filly does sound extra special, though....Who is Azaari? Couldn't find him on the database.

Now there is a stallion that figures in your two pedigrees as well-Naziri via Carmargue and also via Risira on Indian Star's dam line. I think that brings out an incomparable look to the eye...that appeals to your sense of balance...really hard to explain.
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katefox1812
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
1612 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  11:34:20 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add katefox1812 to your friends list Send katefox1812 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think it was a typo and should have been 'Aazari'!

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Treasure
Silver Member

England
442 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  11:38:20 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Treasure to your friends list Send Treasure a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Egbert,

Azaari is by Arazi (who you have recently mentioned) out of Mareesah, for sale on this site!!

Carolyn

Johaara Arabians
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Treasure
Silver Member

England
442 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2006 :  11:39:58 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Treasure to your friends list Send Treasure a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whoops - thanks for the correction!

Carolyn

Johaara Arabians
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