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LYNDILOU
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United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2005 :  8:32:43 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message
I know what your saying Jude and I could bite my tounge off for saying anything I should have just left it. stupid , stupid me I know I wouldn't have known all the answers, that wouldn't have bothered me and would have entered into the fun of it like everyone else, I just thought it seemed like a school exam, and because school exams frightened the life out of me as a child perhaps felt a bit intimidated, sorry everyone for being such a firstclass prat, but most of all sorry Caroline if I upset or hurt your feelings in any way


www.dreamfield-arabians.com
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suyents
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United Kingdom
1651 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2005 :  7:31:17 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add suyents to your friends list Send suyents a Private Message
Well, i think you are ALL geniuses!! The only one i would be able to have a go at is the caption one...but i'll save that for later!!
suyen. :))

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C.J.
Silver Member


United Kingdom
288 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2005 :  8:50:09 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add C.J. to your friends list Send C.J. a Private Message
Dear Friends, thanks for all your messages

Lynda, thanks for your encouragement

Jane, I loved your idea of the ‘Goldies but Dusties’ and hope that if someone posts another quiz in the future we’ll see you in action –you’d make a formidable team to beat! (Extra points for every year over 55 are fine by me; I’ve only another 4 to go!)

Jude, My little ‘grey cells’ need lots of exercising too and setting these questions certainly gave them a work out, really ought to go and lie down in a dark room for a week to recuperate!

Suyen, I bet you know the answers to more of these than you realise -do have a go!

Lyndilou, I’m not thrilled about having to impose ‘rules’ either and would have preferred to run the quiz in a more informal manner but the instant you offer prizes it changes the equation– everything must be ‘above board’ and as fair as possible. This is the reason why I have had to reluctantly say ‘no’ to teams as the person answering on their own must be considered too. This is the first time we’ve attempted a quiz of this nature and there are bound to be teething problems, hopefully we’ll learn from our mistakes and reap the benefits in the future. I hope therefore that you’ll reconsider your decision and join in the fun and general mayhem - one thing for sure it won’t be boring

Best wishes

Caroline

PS Apologies to anyone trying to reach me by e-mail but the server is down and I have been unable to send or receive e-mails for the last 7 days - the joys of technology!


"And God said to the Wind 'Be thou gathered together.' And the wind was gathered together....And he created from a handful of wind a horse of chestnut colour like gold. And God let loose the Swift Runner, and he went on his way neighing."

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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2005 :  9:03:53 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message
Ok Cj, as long as you have excepted my apologies


www.dreamfield-arabians.com
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C.J.
Silver Member


United Kingdom
288 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2005 :  6:58:45 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add C.J. to your friends list Send C.J. a Private Message
Yes of course Lyndilou and I hope you will now have a go at the quiz - Bob will need someone to tell him the answers after all!

One thing which I would like to point out to everyone regarding question 22: ‘What was the name of the ‘Black Stallion’ and who was his sire and dam?’ This is in fact a trick question as it could have two sets of answers. This wouldn’t have mattered in our ‘normal’ quiz but I should say that I’m looking for the details of the movie horse here and not the fictional one. I’ve altered the original question accordingly.

Happy swotting

Caroline


"And God said to the Wind 'Be thou gathered together.' And the wind was gathered together....And he created from a handful of wind a horse of chestnut colour like gold. And God let loose the Swift Runner, and he went on his way neighing."

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C.J.
Silver Member


United Kingdom
288 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2005 :  10:05:29 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add C.J. to your friends list Send C.J. a Private Message
Dear Friends

Here as promised are the answers to my Christmas Quiz. My apologies to those of you who had looked forward to entering but there are certain standards of behaviour to be observed on a forum of this type which I feel has been exceeded by some of the postings – the photograph with its attendant comments being particularly offensive and totally unnecessary. It is neither witty nor amusing. Neither is it polite to complain if you don’t like the question and ask for another one as happened on the Test Your Knowledge thread. You may tolerate this type of behaviour but I do not and I no longer have the heart or the will to carry on with something which has become extremely unpleasant. If there is a lesson to be learnt from all this it’s that you cannot always have everything your own way in life and to be more tolerant of others.

May I take this opportunity to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a very happy, healthy and prosperous New Year.

Caroline

C.J.’s CHRISTMAS QUIZ – THE ANSWERS
Q1. Both the 2005 British National Champion Junior Male MASTER DESIGN and Senior Female LOVE BY DESIGN were sired by VERSACE.

Q2. The book was ARABIAN EXODUS published by J A Allen and Co in 1975, the author MARGARET GREELY and the artist was MISS M.J. STEVENS. The painting was called The Dream, the inspiration for which came from the poem, Arabia by Walter-de-la-Mare “Far are the shades of Arabia, Where the Princes ride at noon……”


Q3. The handler is MICHAEL BOWLING and the horse is AURELAIN. Michael Bowling is a respected authority on the breed and author of a number of articles on genetics and coat colour inheritance in the Arab. Aurelain was foaled in 1981 (Ben Rabba x Estrelia) and bred by Mrs B M Paine. The photo was taken at the Crabbet Convention in 1985.

Q4. Some of Lady Wentworth’s books include THE AUTHENTIC ARABIAN HORSE, THE SWIFT RUNNER, THOROUGHBRED RACING STOCK, THE WORLD’S BEST HORSE, ARAB HORSE NONSENSE, THE HEAVENLY TWINS, HORSES OF BRITAIN and HORSES IN THE MAKING.

Q5. This was LADY ANNE BLUNT writing in THE BEDOUIN TRIBES OF THE EUPHRATES about the QUEEN OF SHEBA - a bay Abeyah Sherrakieh mare foaled in 1875 and bred by Erheyen Ibn Alian of the Gomussa (Sebaa Anazeh). Known also as ‘Betyen’s mare’ as she had been purchased from Beteyen Ibn Mirshid, Supreme Sheykh of the Gomussa for £265 in 1878. She was imported to England in 1879 and shot in the Spring of 1901 (see also Desert Heritage by Peter Upton)

Q6. The handler is a young MICHAEL HARRIS with an even younger HOLLY BLUE at Ascot in 1977. The photo below, taken in 1990, is probably the way most of us remember this lovely mare.


Q7. DAHMANI by VICTOR ADAM.

Q8. ANSATA.

Q9. The caricature is of RONALD KYDD at the Arab Horse Society Show, Kempton Park 1970 (from Autumn 1970 Arab Horse Society News page 71)

Q10. THE BLUE ARABIAN CATALOG. The “Blue Catalog” was an attempt by Jane Llewellyn Ott to compile a list of horses which traced in every line to original Bedouin stock. She started her work in 1952 publishing her famous “Blue Arabian Horse Catalog” in 1961 and continued with it till the early 70’s when she closed her research. The “Blue Catalog” is divided into two groups, the Blue Star and Blue List. Blue Star is a horse descended entirely from Bedouin stock but it has no Muniqi blood whereas Blue List is a horse descended entirely from Bedouin stock that contains some percentage of Muniqi blood. The various Sub-Lists include Sub-List Basilisk (Blue Star or Blue List plus Basilisk blood only), Sub-List Nureddin (Blue Star or Blue List plus Nureddin blood only), Sub-List Skowronek (Blue Star or Blue List plus Skowronek blood only), Sub-List Dwarka (Blue Star or Blue List plus Dwarka blood only). This is a very simplified explanation of a rather complicated subject, for further information see The Blue Catalog and Arabiana)

Q11. PATTERSON ARABIANS, Oregan, USA owned by RICHARD (DICK) and KAY PATTERSON. The Patterson’s specialised in Polish Arabians making their first trip to Poland in 1968. By the early 1970s they were advertising a young home bred horse at stud with the slogan ‘A Stallion for all Reasons’ – the horse was NEGATRAZ (Bask x Negotka by Negatiw). An article about their stud in 1977 stated that “The Patterson’s are not trying to do everything in one generation. They are selecting individuals for a long range purpose of an ultimate “perfect” individual (Arabian Horse World, June 1977) and one horse that came close to achieving this was NEGATRAZ who sired MONOGRAMM who in turn sired the British National Champion Stallion PREMIER owned by Emma Maxwell.

Q12. The artist was LOIS GOSSNER, the name of the article was THE TYPES OF ARABIAN HORSES TODAY and the magazine was THE ARABIAN HORSE NEWS (USA) October 1975 issue. The horse in the painting was the stallion TALAL f.1957 (Nazeer x Zaafarana by Balance) imported from Egypt in 1967 and owned by Mr and Mrs Jim Kline.

The article The Types of Arabian Horses Today was written by R Schmidt, M.D. and Lois Gossner, who supplied the tracings. The aim of the article according to the author’s note was “to be of assistance to the small breeder in selecting the best stallion for his mare.” All well and good but it went on to state that, of Poland “they then bred some Pure Arabians to the Thoroughbred. The Poles have not developed any distinctive type in their breeding - the pure Arabians look like the Classic Arabian, the others look like what they are, Anglo-Arabs. Many of the Polish Arabians imported to the United States appear to be part Thoroughbred.” Polish Arabs were not the only ones to be singled out for this treatment as it was also stated that “Some of the so-called English Arabians are also, based on appearance, part Thoroughbred, and these horses do pass on the Thoroughbred characteristics, which we feel is conclusive evidence of Thoroughbred blood. It is easy to make a mistake in a pedigree, but the horse himself tells you what he is. Actually, Thoroughbred blood in the English Arabian is freely admitted by many English breeders.” And so the article rambled on making such interesting claims as “It is reliably reported that Skowronek himself was put down before the age of 12 because of a severe case of founder in his front legs” and generally denigrating Arabians of every type and bloodline other than the Egyptian. So why did this article cause so much controversy? Because the majority of the breeders at that time where specialising in American, English and Polish Arabians including such studs as Al-Marah, Gainey Arabians and Greengate Farms to name just three. The following months issues of The Arabian Horse News carried letters and articles by furious readers and in January 1976 an excellent feature ‘Speaking Out’ by Jay Stream who recalled a visit by one of the authors to his stud, Greengate Farms. He said “I found her to be quite strong in her opinions regarding the Arabian horse and she swiftly made her likes and dislikes clear. She expressed her distaste for the great horse Fadjur (whose absence in her article was not only obvious, but I assume a plus for the horse), together with her personal theories on the lack of virtue in Raseyn progeny” and that he began to “suspect her expertise.” He then explained to the lady that he had recently imported a bay stallion from Egypt and after “she spent several minutes in deep and admiring examination. She spent the next five or six minutes telling me this was the finest imported Egyptian she had ever had the pleasure of viewing.” Jay Stream said that “she was so excited about this “Egyptian” stallion that I found it even difficult to interrupt her long enough to explain that I had actually been teasing her somewhat, as the horse she was looking at not only was not Egyptian but was by Fadjur out of a Raseyn daughter. Your author immediately left my barn with absolutely no further discussion.” His article ends with “In summing up, let me apologize for not enclosing one of those ridiculous tracings of my “bay Egyptian stallion,” but at the time of this writing Gladys Brown Edwards had not completed it.” As for The Arabian Horse News itself, the magazine continued to get thinner and thinner with the February 1977 issue being the last one that I personally received. I don’t know what happened to it after that but I think it folded (if anyone knows otherwise perhaps they could tell me). A page from the article is shown below, the heavy underlining and ! marks are mine, made when I first read it in October 75!

How involved Lois Gossner was with The Types of Arabian Horses Today I have no idea but I still take terrific pleasure from her artwork and this lovely head study in particular which appeared in the Autumn 1970 issue of The Arab Horse Society News.


Q13. THE BRIDE OF SCIENCE – ROMANCE, REASON AND BYRON’S DAUGHTER by BENJAMIN WOOLLEY. The book was first published in 1999 by Macmillan.

Q14. The artist was PAUL WOOLDRIDGE whose cartoon feature ONE MAN’S OPINION regularly appeared in ARABIAN HORSE WORLD in the 1970s and 80s and they are just as amusing and topical today.

Q15. The bronze is of SHAMMAH portrayed by her owner PAMELA H du BOULAY.

Rachael Kydd wrote of SHAMMAH in The Arabian (Vol 1 No 3) that “the history of this mare is a romantic one.” She went on to sketch a brief portrait of this remarkable mare by writing “SHAMMAH was foaled in Jordan in 1950. Her breeder was Dlewan Pasha Al-Majali (the Prime Minister who was later to lose his life when King Hussein was attacked by an assassin). When SHAMMAH was a year old she was given by her breeder to the then reigning monarch, King Talal (the son of King Abdullah and the father of King Hussein). In due course King Talal gave her to Haji Mustafa Abdo Tabash, known as *Abu Salim. While in Jordan SHAMMAH foaled twin fillies, both of which were born alive and well and which she reared herself. These fillies were at an early age attacked by two wolves which she killed. Despite this auspicious start, the twins died tragically when a lorry in which they were travelling overturned. Each broke a leg and both had to be destroyed. SHAMMAH in due course came into the possession of the Master of the King’s Horse, Mr Santiago Lopez, and was sent by him to England where she was cared for by his wife’s mother, Mrs Mynors, herself an artist and already in her seventies. When Mrs Mynors eventually sold her farm and needed a good home for SHAMMAH, she gave her to her friend Mrs du Boulay. In the years that followed SHAMMAH produced another five foals. She lived and flourished until, at the age of twenty four, she became ill and had to be put down. SHAMMAH was not, according to Mrs du Boulay, a mare which would have been very successful in the English show ring. She was rather on the leg and her hocks were not of the best, but she had tremendous presence and much to commend her besides. She was gay, high spirited and gentle, with a fine dry head and an enormous eye; her nostrils flared even in repose.”
(* the Prime Minister)

SHAMMAH was by Abu Argub Abyan out of Al Karkhieh who *Peter Upton notes was “possibly Karakesh, the chestnut Kubeysha mare, foaled in 1940 and presented to HM The Queen c1952 by Dlewan Pasha Al-Majali (see AHS Vol 8)” He also wrote that SHAMMAH was “one of the last true desert mares to be imported to this country” and that the story of her killing two wolves “well illustrates the courage of the Arab” and he hoped “that some of her children and grandchildren have inherited her indomitable spirit and lion-heart.” (The above quotes are from Peter Upton’s The Arab Horse)

SHAMMAH’S sire Abu Argub Abyan is of particular interest as he was by El Fagr (Selman) out of Al Yamamah (Um Argub). El Fagr in turn was by Mansour out of Sabah – Mansour being better known as the sire of NAZEER.

I have written extensively about SHAMMAH because she has played such a large part in my life. She was already in her late teens when I first knew her but she still had the undeniable presence which commanded respect. Over the years I was very fortunate to care for one of her daughters and three of her grand-daughters and in this show ring dominated world she remains my ideal of the true desert Arab. The photo below of SHAMMAH jumping freely appeared in the Spring 1957 issue of The Arab Horse Society News


Q16. The colour photo is of course AJA SANAGOR, the others are, top to bottom, BAY ABI (with his owner Sheila Varian up) ERRABI (Bay Abi’s sire) and ANGYL (Bay Abi’s dam). AJA SANAGOR traces to BAY ABI through his dam BEY SANTEYNA. BAY ABI literally put Varian Arabians ‘on the map’ and was honoured as a ‘Sire of Significance’ in the August 1984 issue of Arabian Horse World from which these photos are taken including the one of ERRABI’S sire ARABI KABIR (Image x Kareyma by Naseem) shown below.


Q17. Courthouse – Mrs and Mrs H V MUSGRAVE CLARK (Henry Musgrave Clark was one of the first owners of SKOWRONEK who had been imported into the UK in 1913 by the American sculptor Walter Winans).
Hanstead – LADY GLADYS YULE (Who started her stud with the purchase of the mare RAZINA from Crabbet Park).
Harwood – Mrs M CALVERT (The stud was established in 1896 when Colonel Lyon bought the mare Howa from Crabbet Park).
Thriplow - Mrs H WALSTON (The daughter of J M Dickinson of Traveler’s Rest Arabian Stud, USA. Thriplow Stud was founded in 1937 in Cambridgeshire.
Well House – Miss MARGARET GREELY (Author of Arabian Exodus mentioned above in Q2).
Barton Lodge – SIR HENRY and LADY MAY ABEL-SMITH (The stud was founded on the filly NUHRA who had been presented to Lady May’s mother HRH Princess Alice by Sheikh Hamed Al-Khalifa of Bahrain).
Blunt – LADY ANNE LYTTON (Lady Anne was given the mare MIFARIA by her mother Lady Wentworth in 1951 and started her stud some four years later).

Q18. The rearing horse is ANSATA IBN HALIMA f 1958 (Nazeer x Halima by Sheikh El Arab). He was the foundation stallion of the Ansata Arabian Stud and imported from Egypt by Donald and Judith Forbis in 1959.

Q19. The handler is EMMA MAXWELL and the horse SEYHAL is by FAKHR EL KHEIL. I always liked SEYHAL and thought he looked a lot like his sire. He was bred by Major & Mrs P W S Maxwell and foaled in 1977 (Fakhr El Kheil x Selmah by Shakhs) and owned at the time by Mr H Al-Nakeeb. The photo was taken at the AHS Show, Ascot in 1986 and is of particular interest as the judge; in the skirt behind Seyhal, is Sheila Varian (see Q16) The photo below shows Emma on Fakhr El Kheil in 1984.


Q20. HENRY B BABSON imported the horses from Egypt in 1932 (for further information see The Royal Arabians of Egypt and the Stud of Henry B Babson by Judith Forbis and Walter Schimanski)

Q21. The photo shows the stallion MIRAGE as he appeared in a head study from the front cover of the Selby Catalogue. According to Arlene Magid in the The Crabbet Influence (Nov-Dec 1989 issue) “MIRAGE was bred in the desert by the Deneduasha Tribe of the Sebaa Anazeh. His sire was of the Kehilan Ajuz strain while his dam was a Seglwieh Jedranieh. As a young horse he was sought out and purchased by General Haddad Pasha on behalf of Feisal I, the King of Iraq, who paid the then hefty price of $2,5000.00 for him. He was slated to head the Royal Stud as chief stallion. Some years later, he was brought to London to march in a royal parade, where he was seen by Lady Wentworth of the Crabbet Stud. He so impressed her that she persuaded Feisal to sell him to her.” She later writes that MIRAGE “produced no recorded offspring at Crabbet in the years he was there.” This last statement, which reflected the then current thinking, has since been disputed by an article written by Peter Upton in The Arab Horse Society Yearbook 2004 entitled ‘Is Miraze a Mirage?’ This mentions that “MIRAGE was used at stud at Crabbet for Farasin was given to Colonel Loach in 1923 in foal to MIRAGE. She was returned the same year, recorded in the Crabbet stud book and sold to the USA in 1926.” The article also raises the possibilities that MIRAGE may have sired other stock. He was not registered in the AHS or the GSB studbooks apparently because “Weatherby’s refused to accept him” (Upton) whilst Gladys Brown Edwards explains this as “the action of the General Stud Book in closing its pages to all but descendants of stock already registered therein” (The Arabian-War Horse to Show Horse). The other puzzle about MIRAGE was his foaling date, normally given as 1909 but which is now thought by some to be 1919. Whatever the truth, MIRAGE was exported to the USA in 1930 by Roger Selby for his Selby Stud in Portsmouth, Ohio. Once in America MIRAGE sired 27 purebred offspring before he died in 1939. His sons, the full brothers IMAGE (x Rifala) and RIFAGE (x Rifala) founded strong sire lines which featured, among others, IMAGE’S son ARABI KABIR (x Kareyma) who in turn sired ERRABI (x Ferdirah) the sire of BAY ABI (pictured above in Q16).

Q22. The Black Stallion was played by CASS OLE who was foaled in 1969 and bred by Gerald Donoghue, Texas, USA. He was by AL-MARAH CASSANOVA (RAPTURE x CASSANDRA by RAFFLES) out of LA BAHIA (HANRAH x RONARA by ROAYAS). The first announcement that, after a 2 year search, a horse had been found to play the Black Stallion appeared in the June 1977 copy of Arabian Horse World and the magazine continued to feature regular updates on the filming and CASS OLE’s training over the months ahead. CASS OLE was owned by Francesca Cuello the daughter of Dr Leo Cuello who was a heart surgeon and the owner of San Antonio Arabians. CASS OLE and the other horses used in the film were trained by the much respected Glen Randall Sr and his two sons, Corky and Glen Jr. Glen Randall Sr trained such show business ‘greats’ as Roy Roger’s TRIGGER, Dale Evan’s BUTTERMILK, Gene Autry’s CHAMPION, the Lone Ranger’s SILVER, the RED PONY (from the film based on John Steinbeck’s story of the same name) and Rex Allen’s COCO who I remember watching as a child at the Edmonton Rodeo in Canada! He also trained all the horses used in the movies Zorro, The Misfits (with Clark Gable and Marilyn Monroe) and Paint Your Wagon and masterminded the chariot race in Ben Hur. CASS OLE wasn’t solid black as he had a star and four stockings which had to be dyed for the movie and oil had to be kept on his mane, tail, stockings and star to combat the drying effects of the black dye. As for his training, Corky Randall had this to say about him “CASS OLE has the perfect disposition for a picture horse. Of all the horses we’ve ever started in training for the movies, OLE has made our mouths water the most with the thought of owning him. Working with CASS OLE is like having found an Einstein to appear on film!” (Arabian Horse World, August 1977) As to how the stallion got his name, the story goes that CASS was from his sire AL-MARAH CASSANOVA and OLE from the Mexicans who worked for Mr Donoghue. Apparently they were so found of the colt “that every time he was led out of the barn they’d yell “OLE!” and applaud.” (Arabian Horse World, August 1977) CASS OLE wasn’t just a pretty face as he won US National Champion Western Pleasure AOTR and US National Reserve Champion Sidesaddle plus three Top Tens in Performance. He sired 123 foals and died at the Cuello ranch in June 1993. (CASS OLE is the Arabian Horse World’s Heritage Horse in the November 2005 issue)

23. ELKANA. ELKANA f 1969 (Aquinor x Estebna) was the 1972 U S National Champion Mare and owned at the time by Mike Nichols who also owned the 1972 US and Canadian National Champion Stallion ELKIN f 1966 (Aquinor x Ellenai).

Q24 ESTEEM (Ms Susan George)

Q25. MRS PAULINE HITCHINGS and RISHENDA shown winning the BRITISH NATIONAL MARE CHAMPIONSHIP AT ASCOT IN 1980. RISHENDA f 1976 was one of a number of successful offspring resulting from the mating of DONAX (Ludrex x Dargemet) and KRYSIA (Rushti x Karramba), other full siblings including QUADEHA (1975) KADISHKA (1978), ZIRCON SADEEK (1981) and ZIRCON ECLIPSE (1982) shown below in 1984.


Q26. 1947 RAKTHA, 1957 COUNT D’ORSAZ, 1967 MIKENO and 1977 SKY CRUSADER.

Q27. KAYEED (Kheiralla x Joli) a pure bred stallion bred by Dr June Alexander and owned and ridden by Jane Harris.

Q28. The photo shows the Russian stallion MAGNAT (Aswan x Monopolia) of Thistle River Farm, Minnesota, USA. (Taken from Arabian Horse World, August 1978)

Q29. WILFRID SCAWEN BLUNT by ELIZABETH LONGFORD. The full title is A PILGRIMAGE OF PASSION – THE LIFE OF WILFRID SCAWEN BLUNT and was first published in Great Britain by Weidenfeld & Nicolson in 1979 with the first American edition, published by Alfred A Knopf following in 1980. A UK paper back edition was published 1982 by Granada. I’ve read and re-read this excellent study of WSL more times than I care to remember and only wish that Lady Anne Blunt had had such a talented and capable biographer.

Q30 The horse is the pure bred gelding NAFALI GHABRA (Tutseynx Silmonique) winning a 1977 Canadian National Champion Top Ten Native Costume award. No idea what the name of the rider is but would you own up to it?!


"And God said to the Wind 'Be thou gathered together.' And the wind was gathered together....And he created from a handful of wind a horse of chestnut colour like gold. And God let loose the Swift Runner, and he went on his way neighing."


Edited by - C.J. on 11 Dec 2005 1:27:52 PM
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