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Basilisk
Gold Member

United Kingdom
521 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2005 :  1:25:15 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Basilisk to your friends list Send Basilisk a Private Message
Originally posted by C.J.

Keren & Anfi

Following on from Jude's post regarding The Picture Gallery of Arabian Horses (Barbara Titcumb) - I've got copies of both issues, the 1st (1969) and 2nd (1971)so could scan or copy particular pages if you wanted them.

Caroline

PS will see what I can find out about 'plums' Keren, colour is such a fascinating subject isn't it!


Hi Caroline

I think the book in question was the first issue...in the pix on ebay, it showed a fascinating spread in which one of the photos (bottom right hand page) appeared to be of a very extensive sabino greying out. That was what intrigued me - I wanted to know if I was right and if so, who the horse was! Unfortunatley, the pix were too tiny to read the print on...

I'd really appreciate it if you had the time to look through and see if I'm right!

Take care

Keren
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Jingo
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
3632 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2005 :  2:53:06 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jingo to your friends list Send Jingo a Private Message
Hi Keren,

Just had a quick look through my book and the only photos I can find on botton right hand pages - grey are:

Sheer Magic pho as a 2 yr old
Mahdia (El Meluk/The Lady Heloise 67
Nazrat (Naplyv/Nasmeshka 69 pho taken when approx 16 months old.

Do any ring a bell? If so I can scan and put them on here (but would have to be later tonight - gotta go and feed the gang!!!)

Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk

photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging
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Basilisk
Gold Member

United Kingdom
521 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2005 :  7:51:51 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Basilisk to your friends list Send Basilisk a Private Message
Originally posted by Jingo

Hi Keren,

Just had a quick look through my book and the only photos I can find on botton right hand pages - grey are:

Sheer Magic pho as a 2 yr old
Mahdia (El Meluk/The Lady Heloise 67
Nazrat (Naplyv/Nasmeshka 69 pho taken when approx 16 months old.

Do any ring a bell? If so I can scan and put them on here (but would have to be later tonight - gotta go and feed the gang!!!)


Unfortunately, the captions were unreadable, but it didn't look like a youngster - no younger than 4-ish, as far as it was possible to tell.

The horse in question appeared to have white pretty much up to the top of its forelegs, and a 'belly spot' climbing right up the side of its ribs.

Keren
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Anfi
Gold Member


Denmark
1195 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2005 :  8:36:15 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Anfi to your friends list Send Anfi a Private Message
Keren,

I think the horses on the opposite page are Fancy Shadow and Indian Flame.

Anne




I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon
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Rasaqa
Bronze Member


England
78 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2005 :  4:42:23 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rasaqa to your friends list Send Rasaqa a Private Message
Thanks to Anfi, I can contribute to the discussion regarding the Picture Gallery of Arabian Horses (Barbara Titcumb) as I am the one selling the copy on eBay right now! No, it hasn't gone quite yet by the way.. I did receive a question about the identity of one of the horses photos I have displayed in the listing, which fits this colour question. It is of the stallion Zeus, who was by Silver Vanity X Ziree el Wada by Naseel). The 2 photos on the opposite page are of Fancy Shadow & Indian Flame II. This is the 1st edition of this scarce little booklet, so I don't know why other members who have this particular copy haven't got this picture. Hope this helps the discussion.
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C.J.
Silver Member


United Kingdom
288 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2005 :  2:34:37 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add C.J. to your friends list Send C.J. a Private Message
Hello Keren

Just tuned in and picked up your posting re the Barbara Titcumb book. I agree the horse you are referring to is probably ZEUS who looked a most interesting colour (he was killed in a car crash the same as Kedowa if my memory serves me right). I've got a very good quality scanner so could make a copy if you wish. E-mail me if you do on c.s.johnson@tesco.net as I seem to have mislaid your current address.

Kind regards

Caroline

"And God said to the Wind 'Be thou gathered together.' And the wind was gathered together....And he created from a handful of wind a horse of chestnut colour like gold. And God let loose the Swift Runner, and he went on his way neighing."


Edited by - C.J. on 11 Dec 2005 2:36:51 PM
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Basilisk
Gold Member

United Kingdom
521 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2005 :  10:41:16 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Basilisk to your friends list Send Basilisk a Private Message
Originally posted by Rasaqa

Thanks to Anfi, I can contribute to the discussion regarding the Picture Gallery of Arabian Horses (Barbara Titcumb) as I am the one selling the copy on eBay right now! No, it hasn't gone quite yet by the way.. I did receive a question about the identity of one of the horses photos I have displayed in the listing, which fits this colour question. It is of the stallion Zeus, who was by Silver Vanity X Ziree el Wada by Naseel). The 2 photos on the opposite page are of Fancy Shadow & Indian Flame II. This is the 1st edition of this scarce little booklet, so I don't know why other members who have this particular copy haven't got this picture. Hope this helps the discussion.


Yes, that was me who asked!

Caroline, it would be terrific if you could scan it. If he died young, that probably explains why he was not better known.

Silver Vanity/Ziree el Wada, eh? Interesting - seems to confirm one of my suspicions about the way sabino works...

Keren
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Emma Maxwell
Bronze Member

United Kingdom
222 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2005 :  8:16:43 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Emma Maxwell to your friends list Send Emma Maxwell a Private Message
Re plum clour, most recent I have seen is the stallion ALHIMIC a six year old owned at Tersk who I was honoured to show in St Petersburg this year. He had a dark purplish coat and a red /blond mane which I think is the colour we are talking about ? Really a spectacular colour and in common with many Tersk horses a fabulous coat quality. A very nice horse with a charming temperament unfortunately I couldn't fit him in my suitcase to come home !!

He is by MUKOMOL (Kumir / Malinka by Aswan) ex AGATA (Gusar / Antenna by Mascat). He is half brother to Cullinghurst's ADRES and the stallion AVANPOST sold in Holland this year two other stallions I find very attractive.
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BobandEna
Gold Member


England
828 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2005 :  8:38:25 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BobandEna to your friends list Send BobandEna a Private Message
Hi Emma,

I donīt have a picture of ALHIMIC but I do have this of his sire

Mukomol 1979(Kumir - Malinka)


Regards
Bob
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Jingo
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
3632 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2005 :  8:46:05 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jingo to your friends list Send Jingo a Private Message
Emma he is also sire of Grand (x Nevesta) so grandsire of Toman.

Was there a photo of Alhimic in your write up on the show?

Will see if I can find a copy.

Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk

photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging
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Nick
Gold Member

United Kingdom
887 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2005 :  12:06:14 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Nick to your friends list Send Nick a Private Message
Pity this thread as changed direction,Breeding is the core of all we do no breeding means NO ARABIANS over 1055 hits and so few replies
can anyone who is lurking explain this to me,There must be Questions other than colour strange World a little bit of Gossip goes furether than a good thread it seems,
Dragon
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Vygoda
Platinum Member

United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2005 :  3:36:04 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Vygoda to your friends list Send Vygoda a Private Message
Nick,

Why do u think Coronation Street or East Enders are so popular? LOL. Is it something to do with the dark and cold UK Winter evenings? Lovely weather here.

Have to look up my Tesio book (thoroughbred breeder) and what he said about breeding to full brothers. More later Nick!

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SueB
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
3218 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2005 :  4:38:10 PM  Show Profile  Send SueB an AOL message Bookmark this reply Add SueB to your friends list Send SueB a Private Message
Corr........only just seen this threadI don't get much chance on the PC of late, let alone look at other forums.

My little input.........I feel we in the UK don't have many preservation breeders because we don't have that many individuals with the funds and knowledge to do so.(And a couple of hundred acres )
We do have lot's of small breeders. In being a small breeder you have to find the magic ingrediant a mare, a mare that will breed on for you, what ever stallion you choose to mate her with.
To get this mare is not easy, through trial and error you will eventually find her, and when you do, and she gives you what you want everytime, I bet somewhere along the line, in the pedigree, you will have to thank a dedicated preservation breeder for a hefty bit of forethought.

What a joy to breed certain families and see how they outcross with different stallions. I think I have only been to two studs in the UK that can lay claim to that, Micheal Harris and Patricia Lindsays, where you walk round the fields and see generations of families improving with each new breeding, it is heaven.
Can I add, that with Patricias closely bred Polish families, when these individuals are completely outcrossed, the result is very up to date and stunning, Patricia is only interested in her Polish families and poo bum to fashion

How cool is she
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Basilisk
Gold Member

United Kingdom
521 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2005 :  6:33:37 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Basilisk to your friends list Send Basilisk a Private Message
The question of colour is I admit a slight digression, but I ask not for any flippant reason but for a very serious piece of genetic research in which I am engaged. I would be keen to see photos of Alhimic himself - from the photo kindly supplied by Bob, his sire is *not* the colour I am interested in: for those who remember Crystal Magician in youth, that is more the colour I am researching. And I am always interested in examples of extreme sabinos, as part of my work to make breeders aware of the existence of this very ancient pinto pattern within our breed (it almost certainly originated in the Arab, since the only other breeds it occurs in have Arab ancestry).

Sue, you are right - most people who are interested in preservation here have to do so on very limited resources (though that was true too of many of the early US preservation breeders too!). The good thing about preservation breeders is that they look further back than the first two generations of the pedigree.

I thought Betty Finke's article on genotype in the Yearbook was absolutely excellent and should be required reading for everyone who wants to breed!

Keren
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Nick
Gold Member

United Kingdom
887 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2005 :  7:21:23 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Nick to your friends list Send Nick a Private Message
Keren have a look at Firesong a Banat son he carried your colour,
and he bred it on, Diana Whittome knows a fair bit about him,
We covered one of his daughters who carried his colour,But she bred two greys,
Nick
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Libby Frost
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
4710 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2005 :  8:05:33 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Libby Frost to your friends list Send Libby Frost a Private Message
Imadia is a beautiful colour too, dont you all think??

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Emma Maxwell
Bronze Member

United Kingdom
222 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2005 :  6:25:57 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Emma Maxwell to your friends list Send Emma Maxwell a Private Message
Hi Keren

if you e-mail me on emmmxll@hotmail.com I have some pics of Alhimic to send you. I THINK he is the colour you are talking about, but the photos are taken in an indoor arena and do not have the 'glow' that the horse might show in natural light.
regards Emma
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member

Denmark
744 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2005 :  8:16:10 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gu-ku-vi to your friends list Send gu-ku-vi a Private Message

Is it this colour you are looking for ???



This is my crabbet/old english filly Suleima.

Gunni.
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Basilisk
Gold Member

United Kingdom
521 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2005 :  10:51:51 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Basilisk to your friends list Send Basilisk a Private Message
Hi all. What I am *really* after - if anyone sees any - are 'plum' coloured horses with VERY light manes and tails. The ones posted so far are good as they allow for comparison, but it's the light-maned ones that will be the real clinchers.

I am trying to discover if we have something other than liver chestnut going on. Also, if anyone has an instance of a bay or black from two chestnut parents (yes, I know, supposedly impossible) I would be VERY interested!

Gunni, is the mare in your photo the dam of the filly, and if so, what is her colour (looks black on my monitor!)?

Thanks all!

Keren
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member

Denmark
744 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2005 :  11:22:37 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gu-ku-vi to your friends list Send gu-ku-vi a Private Message

" normal" people will call her black, but she is very dark red exactly the colour at the photo.

Gunni.
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member

Denmark
744 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2005 :  11:26:54 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gu-ku-vi to your friends list Send gu-ku-vi a Private Message

You can see her better at this photo, but she donīt have the light mane you are looking for.



Gunni.
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SueB
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
3218 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2005 :  06:43:27 AM  Show Profile  Send SueB an AOL message Bookmark this reply Add SueB to your friends list Send SueB a Private Message
We had Golden Cavalier, (Imads sire), here for the last years of his life, and he was a real plum chestnut. He had the same colour mane and tail though.

Never saw that he passed this on, many livers, not a plum the same as him. Colour is fasinating but not something that worries me, as I love any colour!
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mazey
Gold Member


England
501 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2005 :  7:14:27 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mazey to your friends list Send mazey a Private Message
I'm still confused. Sue does that mean Michael Harris and Patricia Lindsey are preservation breeders? Are breeders who only used Crabbet bred horses preservtion breeders? I remember a few years ago an advert in AHS news for a group of breeders who were promoting "asil" mares whose line was dying out - Is it choosing a particular sire or mare line and only breeding within that family or is it more esoteric than that?

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Basilisk
Gold Member

United Kingdom
521 Posts

Posted - 17 Dec 2005 :  12:09:17 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Basilisk to your friends list Send Basilisk a Private Message
Gunni, what a *gorgeous* mare - and what a fascinating colour too. No, she hasn't the light m/t, but could still provide one of the pieces in this "puzzle". Could you possibly email me her pedigree, if it's not too much trouble, please? My email is one.fish@ntlworld.com. I would love to know her breeding - I "do" Old English too, but blended with Egyptian.

My OH has just seen the photo over my shoulder, and is absolutely drooling over her, as I have to confess I am!

Mazey - *strictly* speaking, preservation breeders are ones that deliberately work with lines that they know are endangered, or which form a unique group. Michael Harris is sort of borderline, in that although he has used stallions from fresh Polish and Russian lines, his core group are based on the early Lindsay imports as bred by the Theobalds family. I doubt that the Lindsays themselves would consider themselves preservation breeders *now*, as Polish lines are spread across the world, but I think there was an element of that when they brought their first horses out from behind the Iron Curtain...no-one knew then whether or not those lines were going to be carried on in Poland or whether they would all just vanish.

Certainly, all the Crabbet people I've met consider themselves to be engaged in preservation - Gunni?

Sue, I remember Golden Cavalier as being a richer, brighter chestnut than the horses I'm trying to "collect" - but he does have a bay in his background which may be significant. Anyway, whatever colour he was, he was a horse I liked :)

Keren
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zara
Gold Member


United Kingdom
1066 Posts

Posted - 17 Dec 2005 :  4:13:14 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add zara to your friends list Send zara a Private Message
uip

"to his virtues ever kind, and to his faults a little blind".

Edited by - zara on 17 Dec 2005 4:27:09 PM
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