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Theo
Silver Member


England

368 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2008 :  10:11:07 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Theo to your friends list Send Theo a Private Message
Dear panel,
I have a question about bitting my PBA mare.

I have just had the dentist visit us today, and he showed me a couple of 'potential problem areas' that might arise with her bitting.

First of all, as alot of horses tend to have and more often with arabians, a narrow jaw and large tongue. Also, he pointed out that with such a 'small face' her leading molars are located far further forward than they should be... hence causing the problem of having 'excessively fleshy' bars with lots of gum folds.

I currently ride her in a jointed fulmer snaffle (with keepers)and certainly feel that she is not consistent in it despite she can score up to 65% at unaffiliated prelim level. I don't want to feel that I am causing her any pain with that bit. He suggested using a straight bar bit with kerb 'Pelham'(he's a showjumper...) using more kerb action. I have used a jointed Rugby Pelham with double reins in my showing classes, but she has thrown her head up in the air to evade the bit on occasions. Could this have been caused by the kerb? This season, I have gone back to showing her in the snaffle and she seems alot happier despite she does tend to drop her head behind the bit to avoid the contact.

I do understand that sometimes you do have to school in a 'stronger/ dressage-non-compliant' bit to get the 'desired effect'. After all, a bit is only as strong as the hands that uses them?

Personally I have my favourite, the Fillis Snaffle which the porting would allow for extra room for the tongue, and the 'hanging cheek' action would take the pressure off the bars on the lower jaw?

Are there any dressage compliant bits you could suggest? Especially on the mouthpiece variant?

Your esteemed advice please? (In the meantime I shall desperately thumb my way through the Nuschule catalogue...)

A very confused Theo
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ashabarab
Gold Member


England
1378 Posts

Posted - 17 Dec 2008 :  3:28:07 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ashabarab to your friends list Send ashabarab a Private Message
my lot have very small mouths and do not like jointed bits
so l only use a straight bar....theres not enough room in there mouths for a jointed bit

best bit ever [for me] is a sprenglar white shaped bit with a small port for the tounge...my ridden gelding loves it!

l guess it's a case of try and try again untill you find what suits her

ash
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sarahlock
Platinum Member


England
1535 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2008 :  12:20:15 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sarahlock to your friends list Send sarahlock a Private Message
Hi Theo ,
it must be in the genes as Fantasy has never liked being ridden in a snaffle, both of mine go well in a straight bar rubber pelham (with joiners).
A jointed Rugby pelham is pretty harsh in comparrison with both the nutcracker & curb action .
Years ago Heather Moffitt (classical riding trainer ) asked me to take Fantasy over to her place so she could use her in a demo , she told me she always rides in a rubber pelham as it is so much milder than the snaffle & better for Arabs & their small mouths !
When i HAD to ride Fantasy in a snaffle for riding club pony or dressage classes i bought a roll of that latex from the saddlers & wrapped it around the mouthpiece , whereas Jazzi would wear a happymouth French link hanging cheek .
Right now im riding both of mine out in a hackamore & they seem quite happy !


Brixham (South Devon )
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angb
Bronze Member


United Kingdom
112 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2008 :  10:55:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit angb's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add angb to your friends list Send angb a Private Message
Hi

I have this problem with my 14.3 Anglo, he just does not like jointed bits, and believe me I've tried them all. I now dont bother to change from a slotted D-ringed Kimblewick. I read somewhere that small mouthed horses, ie, Arabs do prefer straight/ported bits as there is no room for the joint. That's certainly proved right with mine. Obviously the thicker the mouthpiece, the kinder it is.

http://160kminoneday.blogspot.co.uk
http://smallholdingpleasureorprofit.blogspot.co.uk
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Vera
Membership Moderator


United Kingdom
8652 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2008 :  11:09:26 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Vera to your friends list Send Vera a Private Message
My preference is for Sprenger snaffles - particularly the loose ring Ultra KK. The Mylar comfort snaffles are OK too. The thinner mouthpiece takes up much less space than normal snaffles.

Dennis HATED the Happy Mouth Snaffles, I tried the fulmer and the loose ring version of the peanut kind and he would hold his mouth open chewing. I then tried a Nathe with very good results.



Hampshire
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emma
Gold Member

816 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2008 :  1:56:30 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add emma to your friends list Send emma a Private Message
The neue schule people (the old bit bank) are pretty good on the phone and know whats dressage legal etc too, im sure if you rang they would help.

Remember with the kerb you can get a leather one as its softer than the metal one, if that worries you.

Emma
Fulmer House Arabians
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Theo
Silver Member


England
368 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2008 :  11:34:56 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Theo to your friends list Send Theo a Private Message
V - have you seen the price of those KK bits?! Ay chihuahua!!! I'll put it on my Santa list... Mmmmm

Spoken with Heather at Neue schule, she suggested a 16mm (little thicker) eggbutt lozenged (so less nutcracker) snaffle for competition. Adding an Aussie bit lifter and poll pad in training. It's a relatively new bit so I shall size it properly before I committ, as I cannot see any on offer in e-bay. Thanks Emma!

Meanwhile I am working full pelt up to X'mas eve, stressage on 28th, and shall be having a go at Novice 30. Yikes!

Lol... Sarah, I know... the cowbag does prefer a side pull with the reins crossed over on the headcollar! She'd get slung out of the ring as quick as she can get in there! Lol... C'mon, you're setting yourself for the ridden pairs at Malvern are'nt you? (Got an entertaining, glorious last; last year with a 30 mile exclusion zone between the two horses! Lol...)

Ash and ang b , thanks for your input, she was started in the happy mouth straightbar, might put her back in that for the 28th and look again after that...

Big thankyou to you all and have a wonderful 'stress-free' X'mas!

Shall keep you posted! Fingers crossed!

Edited by - Theo on 21 Dec 2008 11:36:54 AM
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suzanna
Bronze Member

Wales
223 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2008 :  6:28:29 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add suzanna to your friends list Send suzanna a Private Message
Why not try going bitless
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sarahlock
Platinum Member


England
1535 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2008 :  6:52:13 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sarahlock to your friends list Send sarahlock a Private Message
Hey Theo could you imagine it ?
Fantasy would think a pairs class was a race & she`d be eligable for the veteran class next year !
Cricky i don`t think i could exhibit mine at Palomino shows anymore ...the judging is ....well ...A Must See !


Brixham (South Devon )
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sub
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
1919 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2008 :  9:34:25 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sub to your friends list Send sub a Private Message
French link mouthpiece or a ported mouthpiece would probably be best.

My AA went well in a bog standard french link snaffle, but when he went into open classes wore a myler pelham with the wide port - he went very well in it, but if you tried a mullen mouth or single jointed bit he would let you know how displeased he was!

I like the french link as there is some play in it and it doesn't just sit in the mouth. No nutcracker action and no dead mouth.

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Theo
Silver Member


England
368 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2008 :  10:17:23 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Theo to your friends list Send Theo a Private Message
Soz Suzanna, don't think I can go bitless under BD?

Yes, Sub, it does make sense, so, it's a matter of asking Santa for that really nice Neue schule salox bit... think that's the route I'd go.

Sarah, trust me, we only go for the laugh. Ask Tina about the 'banoffee pie' episode! Poor Gizmo never recovered from it! Lol... We have our own little party. (Swoosh!) Good company, good wine... who cares who's judging!
If we're not in a class, we volunteer into the ring as stewards... 'Mmmm that one looks a little lame... don't you think?' Hee, hee.

Once santa comes with my pressie, I shall keep you peeps updated about the bit.

T x
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Theo
Silver Member


England
368 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2008 :  10:01:36 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Theo to your friends list Send Theo a Private Message
Okay, instant dislike to the straight bar happy mouth... tongue got ontop... adios! That's going iback in the bit bin. Managed to borrow Millie's Fulmer Lozenged Neue Schule, seemed much happier with it, so will use that for the comp tomorrow. Fingers crossed!
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Deboniks
Platinum Member


England
3776 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2008 :  7:39:33 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Deboniks's MSN Messenger address Bookmark this reply Add Deboniks to your friends list Send Deboniks a Private Message
Hi Theo, here is a website you might find interesting? http://www.pinchlessbits.com/Choosing_a_Bit.html Good luck.

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Theo
Silver Member


England
368 Posts

Posted - 28 Dec 2008 :  11:16:57 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Theo to your friends list Send Theo a Private Message
Hi Debbie,
Many thanks for the link. Made very interesting reading. By the looks of it, the concept is similar to the Myler bits on offer here? Makes alot of sense and they're priced quite reasonable too!

The story so far...

She's very much settled in the 'borrowed' lozenged Neue schule fulmer, so I think I shall continue using that at least until my instructor has had a look at the set-up. After warming up today, she decided to do a 'hoolie' in the prelim 12, tho her head was alot more steady, none of that throwing about business. We managed a 57.6% in the Novice 25, which (I'm told) wasn't too bad for our first attempt at the level.

Due to the current financial climate... I shall continue borrowing!

Many thanks peeps... keep you updated!
T :) x
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Deboniks
Platinum Member


England
3776 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2008 :  8:18:21 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Deboniks's MSN Messenger address Bookmark this reply Add Deboniks to your friends list Send Deboniks a Private Message
If it doesn't work out,I've got one you can borrow for a few weeks. If you want to try it just pm me for my tel number

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suzanna
Bronze Member

Wales
223 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2008 :  5:12:52 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add suzanna to your friends list Send suzanna a Private Message
I know what you mean about not being able to go bitless in certain disciplines, but I do believe that the more of us that do go bitless, the more pressure we will put on Dressage classes etc. You should have a look at The Art of Natural Dressage website, no harsh gadgets are ever used.

Endurance is well ahead of most of the disciplines out there as they allow bitless riding (it`s all about the wellfare of the horse)

I`m probably stirring up a lot of emotions here, but I believe we have to make it a better place for all equines, and that means no harsh gadgets.

I teach reiki for horses and I see lot of pain caused by bits.
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AJJ
Bronze Member


83 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2009 :  10:49:24 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add AJJ to your friends list Send AJJ a Private Message
Suzanna ,
I agree with what you say regarding rules with bitting for each competition, however, as a dressage competitor I would just like to say that in the main bitting is really for eticate which I don't necessarily agree with. I think the harshness comes into play when training, not just with bits but other training aids as well, like in show jumping and many other disciplines as well. Neverthless, although riding bitless may appear better I would certainly say any form of control when riding can cause discomfort when used incorrectly, I have seen many a horse whilst out crewing my partner in endurance being ridden in a rope halter or hackamore in a right state struggling to breath correctly as the pressure applied to the poll has been too great.
Personally I feel there is no replacement for good solid groundwork and schooling and finding what works well for your horse, at the end of the day the horse is a flight animal and if we think we can harness that with any sort of piece of metal then we are kidding ourselves.
Sorry to rant on but I am passionate about this as I think like most things nowadays with advertising we get too drawn into the latest fads.

Amanda

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Theo
Silver Member


England
368 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2009 :  3:48:50 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Theo to your friends list Send Theo a Private Message
Agreed!
The bit is as severe at the hands that uses it. Infact 'your hands are the 'severest' piece of your bridle' a great horseman once pointed out.

I remember riding one horse in particular a chestnut TB gelding by the name of Big Red Fox (RIP), that was never supposed to be ridden with a contact... well, he worked into a very nice outline for me with a contact. Never bolted nor gone into a hissy either.

Going bitless would'nt get the amount of 'hold' to cause the engagement I need from behind. Especially for a young horse in it's early stages of learning.

I can perform a perfect eleven down the centre line to halt... unfortunately the BD judge views it as 'shame about stumble to halt!' Huh?

T x
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Moira
Gold Member


Scotland
503 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2009 :  12:55:44 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Moira to your friends list Send Moira a Private Message
I use a Korsteel sweet iron snaffle with oval link on Zak. It looks very similar to the neue schule bits and only cost about 15. Not sure if they do a fulmer...



***Zak******Zhaazeer*****Gremlin
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tegzidoll
New Member


6 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2009 :  4:46:52 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tegzidoll to your friends list Send tegzidoll a Private Message
There are a few bitless bridles that are now being accepted in dressage. You wouldn't need to worry then...
I have tried one of these bridles on a welsh b as he didnt like bits and he went extremely well in it.
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