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ACGODFREY
Silver Member
United Kingdom
440 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 6:51:02 PM
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My four year old gelding (who I have posted a little about) has today been diagnosed with navicular disease. Xrays confirm changes in the actual navicular bone in both feet...unusual for one so young and particularly an arab. To say I am devestated is an understatement...he went to the vets with a suspected shoulder problem and comes out with this. Not to mention that he is having a mild impaction colic in the vets as we speak they suspect due to the sedatives.
I have looked up on the internet and have managed to really upset myself even more. He will have remedial shoeing (Zan, finally he gets to see Sandy) and I'm not sure what else. Vets will formulate a plan of action before he comes home on friday. He went into the vets on sunday afternoon and had scintigraphy on monday so has been confined to stable for a few days and apparently was totally sound today even lunged on hard surface. I thought that immobility makes the problem worse?
I know that it is most likely that quite a few people here would have experienced this so would like advice/support/information. Has anyone tried magnetic bell boots for this, or are they a waste of time? What sort of future should I expect for him? I will do everything I have to to try and help him out and am now really worried that he is going to be in endless pain.
Anne 
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 7:02:48 PM
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Anne - so very sorry to read your news....sorry no help regarding the navicular....but I would say a big yes to using magnetic products on him - we've had brill results with arthritic etc horses in the past using Bioflow brusing boots (they do breathable ones now) - brushing boots will work just the same as bell boots & probably last longer!
Did the Vets say it could be inherited??
Judith XX |
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Evie
Platinum Member
England
3513 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 7:06:44 PM
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hi sorry to hear your news.
The ID mare I had on loan for six years before getting my Arab developed navicular (she was quite a lot older than your horse though, being 17 when she started with it). We had remedial shoeing for her and during the winter we could ride almost as usual if the ground was soft, in the summer when the ground was hard we couldn't ride her at all though as she was become quite lame. She was an extremely big girl though - 16.3 hh and very wide (muscley!!).
Hope your vets manage to come up with something to help your boy. |
Bristol |
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ACGODFREY
Silver Member
United Kingdom
440 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 7:09:14 PM
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Hi Judith,
Vets say that conformation is a factor, but more likely the bad trimming when he was a baby (I've had him since 9 months old) but trusted the farrier to do it correctly. Ended up with one high heeled/short foot and one low heeled/long toe. Feel guilty now for not being as clued up as I should have been and trusting other people.
He is well bred from Harwood Stud and as far as I am aware none of his relatives have had this problem. Have yet to give them the news, but I'm sure they'll be disappointed as he is a lovely boy and we had high hopes for him.
I may give the magnotherapy a go...after all there is absolutely nothing to lose. |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 7:21:23 PM
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Ah - we do trust our farriers....many years ago I was the same...& had horses with farrier caused problems - I'm far more clued up now though!
Do try magnotherapy - I think the Bioflow magnets are about the best - beware of cheap copies!
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Gail
Gold Member
993 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 8:33:56 PM
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Anne,
I am so sorry to hear about your boy but it doesn't mean there is no hope. I am sure AMcD will keep you right.
I was told that if the ND is mild and only forming it can go away completely, or it could go away and come back between 8 and 12 but will be low grade and manageable. I do hope thats the case with your boy.
Keep me posted, I use a different vet from you who is also excellent so if you wanted a second opinion about anything I would highly recommend him.
Gail x |
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saddlebred
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1706 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 8:48:15 PM
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Hi Anne
So sorry to hear your news. Dont give up though. 18 years ago my vet noticed changes in the navicular bone of my 7 year and she had a "waist" on her one foot. The vet gave her a "new" drug (new 18 years ago!) which was based on heperin to thin the blood. Anyway the horse never developed navicular disease and I am still riding her and jumping her at 24.
Obviously I dont know whether it was the drug or whether she wouldnt have got it anyway but I would say it is worth asking at a horse veterinary hospital if there are any new treatments if you have caught it early.
Because I am the lucky type (not!) my previous horse developed high and low ringbone at 5 and this went on to fuse after a few years. He lived a happy life (with bute in winter) until he was pts for unrelated problems at 29.
My point is that often lots of diseases that used to be life threatening, no longer are. I hope that things work out for your boy. Lots of hugs to you.
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Based Bewdley Worcs |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 8:50:32 PM
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Anne, you need to contact a Barefoot Farrier trained by Jamie Jackson. Jamie Jackson is an actual farrier..American...who studied the mustangs for 4 years and now only does barefoot. He started the barefoot movement. Go onto one of their websites either Jamie Jackson, or Pete Ramey, and you will get some information. It is not all doom and gloom. Do not go with any other Barefoot farrier if you do decide to try this.
Cheers..Cate |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 8:51:14 PM
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Hi Anne I know someone who is very experienced and could really help your horse.If you would like to PM me I will send you some more info.ND is not the end of the world and in a lot of cases can be sorted. |
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alix liddle
Silver Member
England
421 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 9:00:32 PM
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Hi Anne
A friend of mine has a horse that she had on loan for 6 months, then fully vetted and he got navicular about 6 months later. This was about 11 years ago, and she is still riding him, albeit light hacking and I think he is on bute. I know its a real shock for you, but hopefully things will not be as bad as you think. |
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Rach1
Gold Member
England
735 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 9:10:29 PM
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Hi, so sorry to hear about your problem. I have a little experience with this, ask your vet about a new drug - "Tildren" it is specifically for arthritic changes and navicular type problems. Google it and read the reports It should give you some hope. Sadly it isn't cheap - about £300, but def worth a try and you should see some results in 5 to 6 weeks.
All the very best
Rachel. |
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sasha
Gold Member
United Kingdom
518 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 9:12:18 PM
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Look on the Pete Ramey website www.hoofrehab.com
Pete is a world renowned expert on barefoot trimming and has helped many horses recover from navicular. look under ' articles' I think its titled something like ' digging for the truth about navicular' I am guessing that your boy is shod??? It seems to be an problem associated mainly with shod horses.
My nieces 9 year old arab has just been diagnosed with navicular in both front hooves. he is shod also. |
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2028 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 9:38:01 PM
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I am really sorry to hear youre horse is not well. I totally agree with everyone who has suggested barefoot.
Michelle |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 10:09:16 PM
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Hi AnneThis might also interest you?http://www.ericnystrom.com/article_aep.html
I really do recommend KC La Pierre's method. I have witnessed some great advantages of being bare foot.My EP has told me of quite a few cases where remedial trimming has cured ND. I have personnally seen cases where a farrier has covered the symptoms and the horse had to be PTS I attended a trimming course and when we disected a hoof, it was clear that this was the case and so sad to know in that case a different approach could have saved that horses life.
If you want to PM me I could give you his phone number,he is very helpful and will tell you who is in your area should you decide to have an EP look at your boy
Just wanted to add ... I have nothing against farriers as being shod suits some owners/horses
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Dazzler
Silver Member
United Kingdom
290 Posts |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 09:22:10 AM
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I would second getting a good barefoot trimmer out. My trimmer worked wonders with my oldest mare, Ash, whose feet were well and truly wrecked by a farrier. The farrier couldn't keep her sound for 2 weeks but since going barefoot she's been sound for nearly 5 years! Not navicular in her case but she'd have been a good candidate for it with one high long foot with uneven heels and one low long foot with no heel.
I don't know what part of the country you're in but there's very likely to be a good barefoot trimmer somewhere near you who can help. Very sorry to hear your boy has been diagnosed with it at such a young age, and hope you can get him sound again. |
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 09:37:13 AM
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hi , i am totally in your cornermy lovely PBA was diagnosed think it was gosh, jan 07 with navicularhe is the chesnut in my signature -
i was ,and still am coming to terms with the fact my once athletic horse now has to slow right down.
it was a terrible shock - but also i feel a result of incorrect trimming over a period of time
one thing i will say is, you are not happy with the results or have any niggling doubts from experts plse say! i wish i had trusted my instincts more , then maybe things wouldnt be quite so bad.
on a more positvie note after 3 months of box rest, walking inhand- we had to shoe panache with pads & blocks on the feet(fronts) for a time this was the
only way to give him heels! his toe was so ,so long and had no support @ the back of the foot.
i am pleased to say - with the help of david collister @ the forge in chobham we now have a sound horse 
we do shoe, but use cytek which give direct support under the bone and back of the heels , most traditonilists shake their heads as they are not perhaps not pleasing to the eye !but thats not the importantant part
A lot of people dont like them BUT you have to be specially trainined to do cytek
and i think they got 'fashionable' people were just wacking them on with no thought as to differences and then they caused problems & got a bad name .
please take a look at the website http://www.cytekhorse.com/
click on the map of uk & have look @ the history of shoeing , i also borrowed a book on the history of shoeing , it ws facinating to see the changes through the ages! infact they had got it right years ago!
it was the war and the shortage in materials that changed a lot of feet , but thats another story
i would speak in depths to your vet ( mine was fab) and look at all options , ITS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD 
panache can hack and canter and school & even do 2ft3'' jumping again , he cant compete at the level he did which is sad , but next yr i am hoping he can do some low level endurance  please get in touch if you need to talk about what you are expericing , i know how hard it is , big hugs & give him lots of love you will pull through xxxxx |
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Bushburn_Aramist
Bronze Member
England
101 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 09:40:24 AM
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He upsetting i really feel for you!!!
recently my sisters arab went for scans and xrays as he was lame when ridden but not visible when no one was riding him we got the results and he has damaged his suspensory ligament. Its really worrying when you dont know what the outcome be
fingers crossed that you will get it under control
Natalie |
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Bushburn_Aramist
Bronze Member
England
101 Posts |
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 09:46:10 AM
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| OH if you are on the website go to 'clinic '- the very last image is panaches feet! you can just see he has beginning's of ringbone on left image , panache is 17 . |
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Eeyore
Gold Member
1181 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 10:22:47 AM
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Sorry to hear about your boy. Simone the horse in the far right in my signature had navicular. When she was young she used to event, hunt and play polo but all that stopped when she developed navicular at about age 14. This was all before she became my horse. I was speaking to her previous owners on the phone recently and they couldn't believe that later in life she had come sound enough to hack out and ride outside the manege. The turning point for Simone was when we got a fantastic farrier who is brilliant at remedial shoeing and put egg bar shoes on her. I was riding her regularly until she was about 26 but I did have to make allowances for her navicular. No trotting on the roads and no fast work or jumping on hard ground. She was still a speed demon on soft going though and the only horse I've ever confidently jumped over big fences lol
She had that pointed toe stance so typical of navicular and the stilted trot but apart from that you would never have known that there was anything wrong, she was always a forward going horse who loved to work and would try her heart out for you. Soft rubber matting in the stable can help along with areas of soft sand in the field for them to stand in. Simone also had magnetic boots and various supplements.
Good luck with your boy, I'm sure he will have a good future |
Heléna
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Porsche
Gold Member
1194 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 10:40:11 AM
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Sorry to hear about your horse.
However, its really not the end of the world trust me. My mare was dignosed with Navicular too, after all the remedial shoes etc we went the barefoot route (KC La Pierre), 6 months later she was sound enough to start work!!
She remained sound for the rest of her life |
Some people are like a Slinky ... not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs.
     
RIP Fuzzy Bear...Angela RIP......Legacy 1day old...............La Carrera.................Aisa and Bruce |
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ACGODFREY
Silver Member
United Kingdom
440 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 11:22:57 AM
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To all those kind people who have responded to my post with your stories and ideas, thank you so much. After the initial shell shock and tears, I am feeling a little better and trying to remain positive. I will look at all the various links provided etc. and make sure that I am fully informed about the disease and all the options.
My boy is still in the vets today and they will take further xrays etc. to fully see what is going on and the extent of the problem. It came as a shock because until about 6 weeks ago he was coming along so well; working beautifully and people were commenting on how much potential he had for dressage and he tries so hard. The gait abnormality manifested itself at walk only, not trot, and he went in to the hosptial for investigations on massive asymmetry of his shoulders (now thought to be a result of one foot being more sore than the other, and him compensating). But he was stumbling alot but everyone put that down to his young age and the fact that he is usually too busy peering off into the distance at something rather than looking where he is going.
I don't think we can go down the barefoot root as the quality of his horn is poor but will consider all options. Because the balance of his hooves is poor, despite remedial trimming for the last year, he is prone to hoof cracks and has had white line disease before. He has only been shod two times recently, first with natural balance and then with straight bar shoes, both 6 wks apart.
Anyway, I am expecting another call from the vet later today with more news, and can only hope that perhaps it is the early stages and is manageable. OK, so it is unlikely he can ever be shown, jumped, hacked much on the roads, but if I can get him sound enough to do some work in the school and take him for short hacks on soft ground, that would at least be something. I like to do lots of work from the ground too, so am quite happy to take him for walks in hand, long rein etc.
Thanks again, everyone. I will update after I have heard from the vet.
Anne |
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Gail
Gold Member
993 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 11:34:42 AM
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Hi Anne,
Glad you are feeling a little more positive I know it must be hard. I know exactly how you are feeling as I have been through the mill with my horses too, Cushings, cancer, surgery,colic, tendons,you name it one of mine have had it. Probably the same as most people on here I think it kind of goes with the territory really (horse owning)
Keep us posted,I am not too far away from you so if you need to chat about anything let me know.
Gail x
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Porsche
Gold Member
1194 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 12:21:08 PM
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Glad you're feeling a little better about things.
Re the queality of your horses feet, do remember that with propper barefoot trimming (rather than just a pasture trim) the queality of the horn etc improves, becomes stronger...
I have a TB who had terrible quality horn, her shoe kept coming off one foot taking huge lumps of hoof with it, it got to the point that there was not enough hoof left to put a shoe on! After a year with no shoes she is now growing nice healthy strong horn, don't get me wrong, it took a while and yes she was very sore when the shoes came off but with barefoot trimming and hoof boots she is now sound AND has a foot! LOL |
Some people are like a Slinky ... not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs.
RIP Fuzzy Bear...Angela RIP......Legacy 1day old...............La Carrera.................Aisa and Bruce |
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 1:16:46 PM
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Sorry to hear about your boy.
I have a friend who has an endurance horse that has ND and still competes at an advanced level.
I will look up some thing that will help the body to help itself.
Hope thing start to look up.
Pauline  |
Pauline Higgs
Equine & Human Holistic Therapist
www.thegentlestouch.co.cc
www.endurancegbmidsouth.co.uk
Berkshire / Hampshire Border |
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