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T O P I C R E V I E W
Fee
Posted - 06 Apr 2011 : 2:33:02 PM My friend's beloved arab x welsh pony is desperately ill. It seems everything has been tried and still her life is on a balance. Can you please read the symptoms and meds and maybe, just maybe one of you sees or knows something we're all missing?
Email from owner.....
All and any suggestions gratefully and desperately welcome.
Symptoms, they mainly come and go at various times. Attached is day chart.
Stamping Hind legs Days when Not eating Head hanging Tummy gurgling Liver, High AST, CK, GT, Total Protein and Bile Acid Gastric Ulcers - diagnosed by response to medication (too ill for test) Excess Saliva Face itching/Blisters Dragging Hinds Wobbling/Staggering Splayed legs Grinding/crunching teeth Very depressed Bashing me with head, swinging sideways action (Has knocked me out and sent me airborne a few times, can be quite violent) Eyes running clear liquid (front legs wet from rubbing eyes) Occasional manic need to escape, thru fences and stable door, climbing over or lifting door off. No awareness of space Lost voice Licking and chewing Massive strength at times but mostly weak VERY poor quarters 366kg (14.1hh) Puffy above eyes Cribbing Temperature and heart rate normal
Medication:
Gastro Guard Metacam some Liver support meds from Vet forget the name of Milk thistle Devils Claw 2 weekly Multi vit injection Aloe Vera Juice
Problems:
Off side Hip Liver Ulcers Something wrong with her head (vet said the word Tumor but I ignored it cus I wouldn't cope with that thought) - (she is not head pressing) Very thin
Overall:
Vet says 'Day by Day'
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
joanna_piana
Posted - 09 Apr 2011 : 9:21:24 PM So sorry to hear you have lost your beloved mare RIP H Pop
Callisto
Posted - 09 Apr 2011 : 8:18:43 PM Tricia, I too am sorry you feel you had to justify yourself at this time when you are still so sore at losing your girl. I am quite sure you did everything you could, and would have made the final decision if you had been told by the vet that there was no hope of recovery. I really do not think that it anyone's place to suggest PTS on the strength of a posting obviously made at a time of great stress. Take care of yourself.
Fee
Posted - 09 Apr 2011 : 7:45:43 PM Tricia it breaks my heart that you feel you have to justify not putting Pop to sleep. You know it was my idea to post on here all her varying symptoms which you have clearly explained varied greatly day by day. I thought that our two heads and your vets would come to no harm to put it out here incase we were all missing something.
People should surely understand or at least try to that It's absolutely impossible to describe everything! And there are those that will take out of it what they want to judge and pass on their opinion when I hadn't even remotely asked for an opinion. I asked if anyone saw something we didn't. But as you see on some threads people just can't seem to help themselves, who needs livery yards eh.
It's so sad that when you are heartbroken you feel you have to do this. Sorry I'm just so annoyed! Or why not get your vets to write a statement for some people on here as to why pts was not on the agenda. Grrrr
Fee
Pop
Posted - 09 Apr 2011 : 7:19:23 PM Hi
I read this thread yesterday evening, as thou it wasn't my pony, and it occurred to me that, without the information which was not contained in the thread, and not knowing me, some people will have thought that she should have been PTS before her death. I know how I would feel if I were one of those people; and I would have been very distressed and upset. So for any of you who feel as I would have reading it, I must explain, not too much, because I am not yet robust enough on the subject.
But first, for those people who thought she should be PTS because she took vast amounts of caring time, would probably never be ridden again, and would object to treatment costs of £45 per day, you can S*d off.
The liver was fine, the ulcers were responding well to treatment, the metacam was recently started and looked to have fixed the hip discomfort. The manic behaviour was an exaggerated form of her normal behaviour, she always pushed me with her head, always escaped, she did not have normal horse behaviour, because of the things she had been taught by the old man, and its really wasn't clear why they had become exaggerated.
Everything was on the mend, including the phased episodes, but problems remained, what effect would the metacam have on the liver and stomach? Would the strange(er) behaviour subside? The day before she died, everything was going well, she wasnt even lame. We were at the point where she was stable enough for us to discuss the episodes and future, although we thought that the metacam would put an end to the episodes, we had to carefully monitor the liver. During her last 4 or 5 days, my daily telephone reports to the vet kept saying that I was very worrid about her head, I just thought that there was something wrong with her head.
Given that things was improving, it would have seemed inappropriate to PTS, we just had to work out how we could continue her longer term on pain killers if necessary, and to get to the bottom of my worrys about her head.
I'm sure if I had posted that she was, improving in all areas but I had a strange worry, so I was going to PTS would have been met much much horror.
When we started her on metacam, we firmly believed that this would resolved the situation, and had only held off doing that because of the liver. We never discussed PTS as a necessary step, although there was exchanged eye contact that this may have to happen if the metacam failed to solve the problem or damaged her liver too much.
And it was all so hard to sort out which symptom came from which problem, there being the 3 known ones, mainly because we had to treat them all at the same time and didnt want to cause her harm by doing it ne by one, and we so desperately needed some more 'heads' to look to see if there were any clues to what we were convinced was problem 4.
Many of you may be aware that I am not a great fan of PTS, but this is always in cases where the horse is healthy or can become healthy, and am quite vocal when it come sto threats of PTS because a horse has become an inconvenience to its owner, or some other insensitive reason for threatening or actually doing it, but where it is the kindest and mst appropriate course of action I am not afraid to do it, not matter how much it hurts, my feelings are irrelevant
I have taken the decision, both in the case of old Jess, and my dear pony Orange, some 4 years ago, and although there was a chance that she would become paddock sound, the method of treatment would have broken her heart and her spirit, I could not do that to her, and although it ripped me apart, I had her put to sleep.
H Pop never had a harsh day in her life, was loved totally, was given the best of care and was one of those souls who was good, thru and thru. My heart aches for her, but not for the way she passed. Nobody thought it was her time then, if it was, the vet would have most certainly said so, because she knew that whatever was best to do, I would have done the right thing for H Pop.
Thank you for listening.
Tricia
Evie
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 7:24:25 PM Yes I remember her well from the couple of rides we had out together. She was a very pretty mare
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 3:42:41 PM Oh no Tricia! I'm so sorry to hear of the sad losses of your horses. It sounds as though you absolutely tried your heart and soul out for H Pop. She was lucky to have been so well loved throughout her life.
precious
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 2:50:58 PM so sorry to hear this news, you did everything possible for her. If only they could tell us.
RIP H Pop
Pop
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 2:40:27 PM I will try to get that photo, it was quite funny in a way, as I recall, the photo of the horse before had waves like on a speed boat, but H Pop was so calm, you could see her reflection in the water.
I have been offered a painting of her, a very very kind offer; and I want it, to go beside my painting of Jess, with the bit of mane tucked inside.
I'm feeling a bit fragile about going there this afternoon, my first job was the guastro guard, its delivered the same way as wormer, which was always a challenge with H Pop cus she would grab hold of it, tip her head and wait for the squirt, and not always co-operative about letting me have the tube back. How typical of my dear pony, even loves a wormer. God I miss her.
Callisto
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 1:19:20 PM Pop, what a beautiful tribute to your special little mare, huge hugs, you will always have the memories of the good times. Could you contact the photographer of that ride and maybe get a print?
Pop
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 11:20:21 AM Thanks.
Fee, I wish I had, that was a day, it was the West wycombe ride, and all those 'proper' horses deep in the river, and little H Pop almost having to swim, brave little pony, she always tried so hard, and we had so much trust.
Evie, thanks, do you remember her?
Evie
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 10:49:43 AM Oh Tricia, your post made me cry. I am so very sorry to hear of your loss, rest in peace H Pop xxx
Fee
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 10:42:59 AM Just so sad
Do you still have that link to the photograph of little Pop wading through a river for you when she doesn't like going through puddles! Says it all. Would love to see it again.
JESSIEMAE
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 10:23:08 AM What a lovely tribute to your little mare, so very sorry for your loss. She was very lucky in her life to have you as her owner.
RIP H POP
Liza x
Pop
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 10:19:40 AM Thank you, I do, a bit, and the kind messages really do help.
As many will have observed from my posts, I take the life, care and love of animals, quite seriously; and often to heart; including animals I have never met.
Some will say that I should have had her PTS, and the vet and I, in the earlier days have looked at each other both wondering that, but since her known problems were getting much better, and we just had to work out the last piece of the puzzle, and her vital signs were always normal, that was not appropriate, at least unless she had another of the relapses, the reason being unknown.
The vet care H Pop was given was second to none, she was loved by so many, not least because of her gentle nature and funny ways. She really helped many many people get their confidence, both in and out of the saddle.
She had a known liver problem, which has been monitored and treated for many years, and was under control and not life threatening in its maintained state, in fact, she could be treated 'as normal'. She developed a hip "weakness" from lack of exercise during the snowy weather, it was decided that physio was the first option, avoiding medication because of her liver. She began to show liver type symptoms but it was not her liver (and I know so many look like that but I've been dealing with it a long time and so have the vets and its wasn't that), similar symptoms are gastric ulcers, so we tried the gastro guard and she was remarkably better in 3 days. During this time all vital signs were normal, even during what I have called a 'relapse'. Her liver was OK, it was only a problem in that it restricted certain medications, she was recovering well from the ulcers and she had started to bring thru her leg very well. Her diet was complex, because of low protein for the liver and the conflict with the ulcer and weight food intake needs. The day before she died, she looked sound even, was eating well (some days she didn't, but then began again the next day as normal) and everything was fine. My real worry was the relapse episodes. They would come on very suddenly, but even during these, her vitals were normal. We could not understand what was going on, and were looking for a 4th problem. The relapses took two different forms, one was the weakness one, staggering and being totally phased, the other was rather manic behaviour, removing fence rails, bending iron gate fastenings, removing doors, pulling up elec fence posts with her teeth, taking out wooden fence posts, and escaping. The vet was always in attendance during one of her 'relapses', although tiring for H Pop, she would recover quite quickly and would always be fine when I left her. Over the 2 month period she was being intensively treated, but the relapses began to become more frequent, and no longer had a logical explanation or potential reason. I had always been with her when the relapses happened, and left her when she was recovered.
Fee post was to see what comments come out, to provide clues as to where to look for the 4th problems. The vet had suspected a brain tumour.
The night she died, she was fine at 10pm, but it was clear from smashed fencing and hoof marks by a (locked) 5 bar gate, and various places that she had had one of her manic episodes. She had been an old mans pet until she was 9 and had been taught some interesting but unfortunate things, I have seen her climb a 5 bar gate whilst in perfect health, climb between fence rails, undo locks and stuff like that.
When my friend checked her yesterday morning, she was not in her paddock, or the next paddock, or the next. She was found in the crop field and I guess you could call her cause of death 'an accident', thats what im told, but I cannot bear to hear any details.
I have discussed it with the vet, and we will meet when we are all feeling better to discuss it. Her current feeling is that it was a brain tumour.
H Pop was a wonderful pony, she fit the descriptions 'a mothers dream' 'worth her weight in gold, and many like to a tee. She was funny, cute, very pretty, very brave, loving and loyal. She would go anywhere and do anything I asked her. She would even ride like an angel on voice alone. She was really one in a million. I so miss her little face, and her screeching at me when I arrive, and the daily hunt for things she has 'rearranged', and her refusal to let me have her empty bucket, and running off with brushes, and tipping the wheel barrow over, and summer days just walking round together, no headcollar and lead rein, just wandering about in the sun. And long hacks with a packed lunch; and not even having to tie her up when we stopped to eat. And the way she would come over to have me hold her head in my arms and have her face rubbed, but maybe that was a trick to have a closer look in my pockets.
RIP H Pop
Fee
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 05:23:53 AM Tricia hope you feel a little stronger today...
Fee x
PS Inka sends you a BIG Inka style hug. Take a deep breath!
jasjmm
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 03:18:09 AM So sorry to hear this - devastating. xx
Honeyb060674
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 10:30:57 PM So very sorry to hear this, thinking of you...sweet dreams H Pop
george
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 9:39:13 PM RIP H Pop, sorry to hear of your friends loss x
debs
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 9:29:32 PM Oh Tricia, so sorry. Thinking of you x
Cate
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 6:53:09 PM So sorry to read this sad news.
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 5:46:09 PM rip H pop very well loved and will be sadly missed soory to hear of your loss tricia thinking of you at this hard time
Suelin
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 4:21:50 PM So sorry Tricia. I have e-mailed you. RIP H Pop
Silver
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 3:19:47 PM Very sad but in a better place now RIP H Pop
It sounds as though you absolutely tried your heart and soul out for H Pop. She was lucky to have been so well loved throughout her life.
